This year I have booked a management hunt at a ranch for my son and I to both kill a cull buck and we are supper excited. I’m even more excited that this will be our first hunt together and his first deer! Last year I bought him a Rossi youth 22/20ga and he is excellent with the 22 and thinks the 20ga kicks to hard and was kind of discouraged from it…(Even I thought for a 20ga it packed a punch). I really don’t want I’m to be scared or discouraged from the recoil of a deer cartridge so my question is I am going to get a replacement barrel in either a .223 or a .243 but witch one would be the best for him so he won’t get discouraged? Thank you!
Brian

either will work fine with the right bullet and proper shot placement. I'd go .223 if it were me.

Dave

I would try to get him out of that cheap little rifle if you can afford it and get him in a bolt .243 or 7mm/08. The better equipment you give your kid the better chance for success!

Likely on a booked hunt they may require .243 minimum might check that as well.

Whichever you chose, be sure to pick a bullet that is designed for deer and not varmints. The BULLET is more important than the cartridge!

I just emailed them to check on the requirements, but for now just dont have the budget for new rifle but a new barrel is only $125...

.243 with a 95 or 100 grain bullet...like someone said a load intended for big game and not varmits...I have both guns and really dont think there is much diff in the kick...now going from a .243 to 30-06 tons of diff..

You could get the .243 and a good recoil pad. I am going to teach my son on my .243.

TSX or nosler partitions in .243

Yea i was planning on using the TSX for him. I have only heared good things on that bullet in deer and hogs. Diego how old is your son?

He is 8, not quite ready just yet but I am currently teaching him on his little cricket. He should be ready by next season.

I was thinking of starting him on the 55gr to get him used to shooting a .243 and then work him up to the 100gr powerpoints.

My son is 8 too...he shoots his 22 and is accurate. Here is his group with his rossi 22 at 100yards!

I know he can hit what he will be shooting at, thats why im wondering if a .223 would be better as of recoil and still get the job done as for a .243 witch is know for Texas deer hunting.

Do you know the twist rate on the .223 barrel?

The regular .223 barrel is said to have a 1-12" twist

I wonder if it would stablize the heavier .223 bullets. I believe you can find upto a 75gr .223.

Winchester makes a 64gr Power Point for the 223 that is designed for deer. It should be a lot cheaper than the TSX. And it should be accurate enough at the ranges your son will be shooting. Let us know how it goes!

I defiantly will give y'all a range report and the hunting report in November! We are headed out veterans day weekend and im super excited

My son started out at 9 with my .270 and never had a problem. I think in most cases if you give them a gun they never complain about the recoil because they don't have anything to compare it against.

He knew it would kick harder than a .22 but he never had shot a .223 or .243 so he did not have those to compare it to. Just a thought but it is one way to handle the recoil issue with kids.

I have bot as well but would go with the 243 my son shot his first buck at 9 with the 24:

I'd get the .243, and then select correct ammo for minimum recoil.

look at http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm and even http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm to see what your 20ga was doing (what ammo were you using in the 20ga)?

The rossi is quite light, and if you were using max-20ga ammo, it could have had 20ft/lb or more kick - about like a 270.
(I'd certainly suggest managed-recoil 20ga shot-shells for now, till he grows into it a bit better.) I've even seen 20-ga managed recoil slugs even . . .

anyway, you can probably get .243 with good deer-hunting ammo under 10ft/lbs recoil. He can certainly handle that. And that will certainly take a whitetail here in Texas - don't let his first whitetail experience be a run-off with .223 on a slightly-misplaced (read youth/inexperience) shot.

Like other said, .22 has like -0- recoil, so you WILL need to get him some range-time with some center-fire so he learns proper recoil response with whatever caliber you select.

.243 every time. You can expect some buck fever from a kid on his first hunt and a .243 will give him more wiggle room.

243

1/12 in .223 will handle 75gr I assure you, will do good with 60gr

Thanks everyone for the input!

hey brian i have a youth model 243 rossi i got when my boys were younger if u like u and your son are welcome to come up here in east texas on our lease and let him shoot a few rounds see how he responses to it . i had same problem with 22/20 gauge rossi i got one for my youngest son in 2003 i am 6ft tall and 270ibs and the 20 gauge rocked me way to much for kids, i think eathier 223 or 243 would work fine with tsx ammo for texas deer, am between linden and huhges springs we talked before about a hog hunt u could bring your son we will start running feeders about 1st of next month, let me know and yall could come up one weekend when we are all open

On the .243 Rossi has either a regular or Heavy barrel. They are the same price so would it be better to get the heavy barrel for recoil or would that even matter? It also has a 1-10" twist and the regular barrel has a 1-12" Twist.

The heavier barrel will reduce some of the recoil and the 1:10" twist will handle the heavier rounds. My Remmy has a 9 1/8" twist.

mine is light barrel i would think bull barrel would cut down recoil, but might make rifle hard for 8 year old to handle u know boys size and strenth better than we if he can handle bull barrel i would get it

Just my opinion but a 223 is a varmint gun. I think Texas should have a minimum caliber not just any centerfire.

Thanks everyone!

I had a similar experience with my son...the first time he shot a .410, the recoil left a lasting impression...that darn .410 single shot kicked like a mule...same with the 20 gauge when he moved up to it. He was nervous as heck about shooting the .243 we used for deer last year. But when he finally shouldered and shot it, he couldn't have been happier. A recoil pad will help, but I think he'll be fine with the .243.

Oh good and yea your not joking about the single shot 20ga it kicks hard! Thanks for the info

I learned how to shoot on a .243 and now that my nephew is getting older we have that gun waiting for him after he shoots a .22 a little bit. I also bought myself a new .243 to shoot when I don't feel like shooting my 30-06. Myself and my older brother both shot our first deer with the same .243 that my nephew will learn how to shoot with.

A .243 is definetly a better deer caliber.

X2

Shot plenty of deer w/ .223 but were neck shots. Would personally go w/ .243

My son shoots a 243 he is fixing to turn 10. I started him off on a BB gun, then single shot 22,410,20 ga., 223 now he is using a 243. I use 95gr, Nosler BT and the 100gr. Hornady, He has taked 3 deer and several hogs. He shoots about 100 rounds before hunting season. The main this is SAFETY AND PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

My daughter took her first two deer with a .243 NEF Handi Rifle.

Put a Simms recoil pad on it they are great.

.243 and if it kicks too much add a Limb Saver recoil pad on the gun butt

Good Luck!

I would go with .243... I shoot a 6mm in a ruger
M-77 drops em everytime... I would
Worry about shot placement with
.223.... Personally I think .223 is
Too small for deer that's just me

I did check with them and they do not have a minimum caliber but i am going with the .243 and putting a recoil pad just to add a little more comfort for him. I want him to enjoy shooting and hunting! I did like the comment about having a .243 for yourself just if you dont fill like shooting the bigger calibers and you might have just put the idea in my mind to get me one too! But i will be getting the .243 and i know he will have a blast! Thanks everyone

When that first deer is in the sights, he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between his .22 and a .45-70.

No..at go time he wldnt be able to tell the difference... but at the range, when its important to be gaining confidence he sure will feel it...the added recoil is coming from the tiny lil single shot frame of that gun. Id be willing to bet that for about the same cost as the $125 barrel u could likely find a used bolt action in .243 or something close....a bolt action w a little more weight to it would absorb a lot of punch and allow him to shoot more comfortably...thus improving the end result. If u stay w the rossi..at least get the heavy barrel. May help a bit.

To not get him discouraged get him a 223 or 243 with a bull barrell it will reduce the kick a whole lot. I have shot Texas deer with the winchester silver ballistic tips in 243 and 223 both work great.

Ballistic tips are not a bullet for deer, glad it worked for you but this is bad advice especially in the small calibers you are recommending a varmint bullet for deer

they may not be choice for behind the shoulder shots or a begginer who is not confident in shot placement but i've downed a lot of deer with what he calls balistic tips but all but 1 or two of these have been head or neck shots and have yet to have a bad experience i shoot a .243 and am very confident in my shot placement i mainly shoot hornady but have used the silver tips also

Good for you but fact is the bullets suck for deer and especially for a kid. If you hit right in the head it doesnt matter what you shoot

I have been trying to figure your point, is it that you are anawesome shot or it doesn't matter what you shoot em in da head with

Pass the salt

Absolutely correct. I tried them for a few years early on and the performance just does not compare vs. a more controlled expansion bullet. They CAN work very well, but overall performance with a ballistic tip can be (pardon the pun) hit or miss depending on placement. The only thing I use ballistic tip bullets for anymore is varmint rounds where they do excel.

I've been shooting the Ballistic Silver Tip with success. What is the beef tith this bullet and deer..? Poor expansion? inconsistency? accuracy?

What caliber are you shooting it in?

Generaly they over expand,dont penetrate as well, and dont give exit wounds if you need to track something in lighter calibers.

matt

No beef. Use what works for you. Ballistic tips GENERALLY operate on a more or less explosive expansion platform, losing quite a bit of retained weight at impact. This depends some on where and what you are hitting on the animal. A more controlled expansion bullet tends to hold together better at impact, retaining more weight, penetrating and expending more energy on target. For deer, find a good controlled expansion type bullet for a beginner ar any hunter for that matter, they are a bit more forgiving on the performance side in case of a less than optimum hit. Nothing wrong with Winchester BST's, just not the best choice for a beginning hunter.

The over expand, they suck unless you are using for varmints poor penetration.

7-08 BST for deer. Lungs shots seem to pass thru with smaller than expected exit wounds. Still trying to find 7-08 TSX over the counter...

Back on topic, My son has been haveing success with .243 shooting plain ol' remington power point in 80gr.

.223 just kinda looks and feels small...

winchester makes Power Points, the Remington 80gr is a PSP (Pointed Soft Point) which, by the way is designed as a varmint bullet, not a deer bullet. IMO a 223 with a partition or TSX would be more reliable than a varmint bullet from a 243.

The bullet is more important than what is on the headstamp.

Agreed

never said i was an awesome shot just said i'm confident with shot placement i shoot the same rifle and same ammo every time so you get used to when you pull the trigger you hit where you aim i was just sayin that they will work that's the point and do so quite well

I shoot the .243 with 95 grain ballistic silvertips and have never lost a deer..In most cases a shoulder shot drops them there...If they have run , it hasnt been far and tons of blood...Its just a fun gun to shoot..Have the 30-06 as well with the 150 gr ballistic and it leaves a gaping hole everytime...I guess you can read all ya want but never know till you actually shoot something and see for yourself... ..This includes over 50 deer with the .243..No matter if it was square in shoulder,crease behind shoulder,base of neck and of course earhole shots...

Still doesn't make it the best option especially for a kid starting out. One time I shot one off the rock over the hill thru a tree...... Nevermind.

wow now someone is bragging about there shooting

who says.
a .223 BT is not a deer boolit a 95 gr .243 bt is.
To much emphasis on boolit construction these days, they sure have many of you brain washed, a boolit reaching full penetration and coming apart in 3 pieces leaves more damage than a bonded boolit going straight through.
In the old days hollow points were the rave, nowdays people want a freakin fullmetal jacket super bonded gliding metal ttsx gmx boolit.

Ever.. I went through the same thing last year. I 9yo was doing fine with a 22 and getting him ready for deer season made the mistake of having him shoot my 270. (130gr) .. He was able to shoot it 2 times and that was enough.. He developed a real problem getting on target after that. I have had him shooting 243 80gr since and he is doing great. Some recoil but not bad at all. I do think this is the perfect caliber for small frame and honestly wouldn't mind shooting it myself more likely 100gr (will be sighting his in with this soon and not tell him)... Good luck.

Have used TSX or TTSX. Cause I am figurin you have not or you would get it!

oh i get it, freakin core locks worked for me for the past 40 years and for many others, a piece of lead through the lungs is well, a piece of lead through the lungs, glad you prefer copper though, to each his own

A 223 will kill a deer. I have done it and so has my son. that being said a 243 is a much better choice. A 243 with 100 gr Nosler Partitions is a very good deer round. It isnt marginal and it will penetrate and kill without hesitation. I could kill a deer with my pellet rifle, but the deer and the young hunter deserve better.

The old green remmys have killed many a deer, but the X is a whole different animal. A half ton will pull, but a diesel will do better. I have shot the X since 1994. I have yet to recover one. I am from the school that says, I want what goes in to come out.

Interrupting this pissing match to say I was wrong, shooting PSP not PP.

theres no magic boolit a bullet designed to blow through bone holds together better, a boolit that hold together better leaves small holes when not encountering bone.

a .243 100 gr cup and core, it doesnt get any better than this

WORLD of difference there.

sure is

This is what the 80 gr looks like...

Yup, that's a good one swmays.

Uhm, good as in good or good as in bad?

All I know is that this hunk of metal went _smash_ and the deer went _flop_...

boolit manufactures would tell you that is boolit failure, I say its called performance. bullets that do that leave a lot of damage, but now people want them to hold together and retain all its weight, that might be good fo hippo, but on a lil ol deer give me smash anyday.

Good as in I was not being facetious. My previous post that said "World of difference there" was referring to you saying that you use PSP and not PP. The bullet you show in your last photo looks like it performed as it should have. Good stuff.

Got it.

Just out of curiosity, how far away was the deer that you dropped with that bullet?

My 8 y.o. shot a medium size doe at 85 yards, bullet was just under the skin. The blind is over his left shoulder...

Vg you should your lead and I will shoot my copper!

Great pic!!!

Your right those little copper bullets suck.

Heheheheh!!! Love those pix of Lil Hammer, the smile says it all. She's a happy girl.

Thanks I would show him the bullet, but it didn't stop on a quartered Oryx imagine that you can see entrance and exit thru off shoulder. Damn guess that is bullet failure

Great pic!

very nice animal congrats to yer daughter, I like a little bigger hole.

.243 100 gr gameking exit





.243 100 gr gameking entrance

Had three bullet failures with game kings in 243 and 270. I will not use any cup and core bullet in .27 or under...unless its for ultra long range.

My 257 shoots 115 VLD's under .5 @100 but is till won't use use them on game.

cup and core bullets in small calibers IMO are only good for neck shots...where explosive is good

There's always somebody that wants to argue.

The exit hole was larger and I only know the guys at the camp were very impressed with wound channel and you can see the blood pouring out the exit in the video, and that's just a little ole 120gr. These bullets are right up your alley vg as much as you like velocity!

139 gr btsp

What happened to your pic mays

X2 as hot as he runs they should be perfect for him

Is that all on entrance side? If so I would change bullets.

I still see it...

It's back now

I think its a pretty good option based on what I have SEEN the winchester ballistic silvertips have done..I just figured you would get it by me giving some first hand knowledge of what ballistic tips have done....BTW my nephew,starting out2 seasons ago, has 3 kills as well with ballistic tips...To each his own...all 3 were over the river,and through the woods...

I have SEEN them blow up and the animal leave to never be found due to zero penetration, bottom line ballitlstic tips are varmint bullets not for deer or any other larger game, your day will come and you will say DAMN these bullets really do suck!

..This statement can be said about EVERY load out there....you crack me up.... anything going 2800 fps is going to penetrate....to each his own.....

Not true. What he is describing is called a "splash wound" and it happens all the time with people not using a projectile suited to the task. You are aware that there are projectiles out there that are so fragile that if pushed fast enough, they will fragment in flight before impact due to RPM's alone? How deep is that going to penetrate?

Laughing...........


Chupa

"anything going 2800 fps is going to penetrate.."

dead wrong. A bullet designed for varmints hitting the shoulder of a big game animal will likely not penetrate much at all.

I tried, BMD. I really did.

165 gr balistic tip is not frangible

There is also two types of NBT(DOH!!!!)


There is the NBT Varmint = Fragmenting although it is one of the sturdier "Varmint" grade projectiles.

And the NBT Hunting = controlled expansion


Chupa

seems someone here doesnt know that

And I don't think they make a 165gr projectile for either a 6mm(.243) or a 5.56mm(.224), which is what the OP was talking about.



Chupa

ok a 95gr bt is not frangible either

I know I hunt trophy animals and I am not hunting with a junky arse bullet or even worse a junky arse hornet, and worst of all a pos vanguard wanna be a weatherby

yaaawwwwnn...... get some better bait troll

I really don't give a frogs a fat arse they are cheap arse bullets! You wanna use em, but you recommending for a kid I a .223 or .243 is ridiculous!

Nope, which is why you need to know that there is more than one type of NBT.......Because the 80gr 6mm is frangible.

Did you know that before Googling?


Chupa

i havent recommended anything, you just keep saying there varmint boolits and im telling you there not. not in .243 or bigger there not

Pot calling kettle black you don't give a chit because you don't hunt trophies and you have little respect for the animals you are shooting and this obvious, or you just like stirring the pot, please continue using your cheap arse bullets and overload shells in your cheap arse rifles if that what makes you happy!

dude i been around a loooooong time. 80 gr 6mil in gmx is not frangible either nor the 85 gr sierra game kings

I am telling you they SUCK! Watched a 165 pop on axis bucks shoulder and e ran off with blood all over his shoulder it expanding all right and never made it thru the blade, then I watched it happen again on aoudad the bullets SUCK!

And it doesn't stop there. I have a load for a 75gr 6mm Hornady HP #2420 which technically is a "Varmint" projectile. This load is used for hogs and does quite well, atleast up to the 200lb mark.

The reason it works is because it's not being pushed from a .243. It's for my 6x45 which is much slower velocity wise and the projectile acts more like a controlled expansion round at that those speeds.

On the flip side, a hotly loaded .243AI can make a mess of some pretty sturdy projectiles as well.

Depends on how hard you push them.


Chupa

well ive only seen them go trough like butter, heres me running light for caliber with some speed behind it. look closely and you can see dirt from the boolit as it went through, this was a neck shot on a thick skinned pig no less.