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Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842622 11/17/10 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: nogeese
yea well, I will have to shoot him next time because I cant shoot another spike which I would prefer... confused2
Lord forbid u leave a buck tag in ur pocket.


I also love the meat I will have eaten all of it by june at the latest then I will have to get by on White bass til next deer season.



Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: nogeese] #1842640 11/17/10 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: nogeese
yea well, I will have to shoot him next time because I cant shoot another spike which I would prefer... confused2


Now I'm really confused. Lets see if I got this right. You shot a spike on a high fenced place after you saw a 22" wide 14 pointer with a drop(unknown age). And now you are saying that you have to shoot the 14 pointer because you don't have a spike tag?

Here are my questions:
1. Are there only 2 bucks on this high fenced place?
2. Who says you have to shoot 2 bucks?
3. Are there no does to harvest?
4. This high fenced place isn't on MLD's? Must be a really small place or have a lot of hunters come through to keep the deer below the carrying capacity.

Here is my take if the above is correct. Shoot the 14 pointer. It doesn't affect anything but the deer density on the ranch. Then you will not have any adult bucks to shoot next year because you shot the only 2 bucks on the place. I hope they got some does bred. Then enjoy the meat on your plate during dinner and throw the antlers in the trash because you can't eat them.



Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: nogeese] #1842650 11/17/10 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: nogeese
Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: nogeese
yea well, I will have to shoot him next time because I cant shoot another spike which I would prefer... confused2
Lord forbid u leave a buck tag in ur pocket.


I paid for it so I am gonna use it... do you pay for a full tank of gas and only take half a tank?
There in lies the need for ARs.



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: nogeese] #1842658 11/17/10 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: nogeese
Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: nogeese
yea well, I will have to shoot him next time because I cant shoot another spike which I would prefer... confused2
Lord forbid u leave a buck tag in ur pocket.


I also love the meat I will have eaten all of it by june at the latest then I will have to get by on White bass til next deer season.


Start pig hunting now. There are way too many of them, you can hunt them at night and there isn't a bag limit. Woo Hoo. Problem solved and you will need to buy another freezer for all that meat. Think how tasty those 25 pounders would taste over the fire pit.



Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842660 11/17/10 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: nogeese
Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: nogeese
yea well, I will have to shoot him next time because I cant shoot another spike which I would prefer... confused2
Lord forbid u leave a buck tag in ur pocket.


I paid for it so I am gonna use it... do you pay for a full tank of gas and only take half a tank?
There in lies the need for ARs.


Need does not equal want...please prove ARs were needed.



Last edited by Curly; 11/17/10 11:04 PM.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Curly] #1842673 11/17/10 11:08 PM
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Please prove they werent



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842679 11/17/10 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Please prove they werent


I called you out first........


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Curly] #1842687 11/17/10 11:13 PM
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He can shoot the 14 pointer and get about 30 lbs more meat which is perfectly legal. Now the HF place doesn't have any adult bucks on the ranch. grin If this place is low fenced, then they are needed because there are only 2 adult bucks on it or the other bucks are really young. bang I find it hard to believe that all the bucks he would be seeing are under 13".

How many mature bucks do y'all see that are under 13" in a given year? I know you might see one or two. But those are the exception which equals a small percentage of the over all herd. Note: I said mature not 1.5 or 2.5 year olds


Last edited by Tye; 11/17/10 11:22 PM.

Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842692 11/17/10 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Lord forbid u leave a buck tag in ur pocket.



Tried to use mine on a heck of a mature buck, the subject buck and one that would be termed a management buck under ANY management plan I've ever been a part of, but the state won't allow it.

Oh, well....haven't shot a buck in about 8 years anyway. Kind of shoots holes in your we all shoot anything with horns theory.


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Curly] #1842706 11/17/10 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Curly
Originally Posted By: Cpack
Please prove they werent


I called you out first........
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler. The fact of it is the burden of proof is on y'all. The law is on our side. We have what we want. We don't have to change your minds



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842711 11/17/10 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Please prove they werent


we were shooting plenty of nice deer prior to them and continue to do so. However, neighbors (95% hunting clubs) have a healthy fear of not rocking the boat.


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: nogeese] #1842807 11/17/10 11:46 PM
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Perfect example of a super mature buck that WOULDN"T be legal in an AR county. 145"



Mathews
125 grain Vortex on a FMJ arrow
Hunt near Freer
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Electric Tex] #1842839 11/17/10 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Electric Tex

Perfect example of a super mature buck that WOULDN"T be legal in an AR county. 145"


That is a nice example of a sub 13" mature buck, but the key is...MATURE. The problem is that there are very few mature bucks because they were being shot at 2.5.



Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1842861 11/18/10 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler.


Sorry, but that ain't proof. I saw tons of great mature bucks at various processors for decades before this nonsense started. Guess that proves the opposite.

I want proof that it's working in my county on my ranch where I hunt. My experience from actually hunting tells me it has the exact opposite effect.


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: HillbillyDeluxe] #1842903 11/18/10 12:22 AM
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smile

here are 3 bucks from the same 12000 acre mld (and heavily managed since the 60s...was HF for a long time and they just gave up on it...and moved their HF mgmt to the next county over away from the thickets and that is how Scrappin' Valley came into existance) property in an AR county from this morning. Not the first one over 13" @ 4.5. Not going to be able to change those brush buck genetics w/o changing the habitat, but one more yr just adds mass and a little tine length on these deer 9 times out of 10.



can still make out the frame on this one.


12" 12pt



Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: HillbillyDeluxe] #1843352 11/18/10 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler.


The local processor deals with dead deer. Doh

The proof of age structure is live deer, that actually have age. There proof is no live deer data on the deer that are walking around in the pasture. TPWD did not prove ANYTHING about the living age structure of the herd by counting dead deer !!!

They might have proved hunter selectivity. But that wouldn't fly with the masses as we see in this thread. Sooo they chose to make up an "Age Structure Problem" and try to twist the data THEY HAD around to support it. Making esteemed TPWD Wildlife Mgr. desk Jockies in Austin look like idiots!!!



Originally Posted By: WMI report
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?

confused2TPWDconfused2
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: HillbillyDeluxe] #1843377 11/18/10 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: HillbillyDeluxe
Originally Posted By: Cpack
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler.


Sorry, but that ain't proof. I saw tons of great mature bucks at various processors for decades before this nonsense started. Guess that proves the opposite.

I want proof that it's working in my county on my ranch where I hunt. My experience from actually hunting tells me it has the exact opposite effect.
I saw mature deer at my processor too. But for every mature deer, there were 10 immature. That is proof we needed the law in erath county. I'm sure it was the same way in most counties in the state, but I can't prove that, and you will never admit it.
You are gonna have to give me proof that it does not work. Other than that one dang deer that you can't kill. All of y'all whine about the one deer that is ruining every deer within a radius of 10 miles of your ranch. That deer isn't gonna ruin anything, and that deer sure ain't proof ARs don't work



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: PHishTX] #1843401 11/18/10 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: PHishTX
Originally Posted By: Cpack
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler.


The local processor deals with dead deer. Doh

The proof of age structure is live deer, that actually have age. There proof is no live deer data on the deer that are walking around in the pasture. TPWD did not prove ANYTHING about the living age structure of the herd by counting dead deer !!!

They might have proved hunter selectivity. But that wouldn't fly with the masses as we see in this thread. Sooo they chose to make up an "Age Structure Problem" and try to twist the data THEY HAD around to support it. Making esteemed TPWD Wildlife Mgr. desk Jockies in Austin look like idiots!!!
So what your saying is, if the meat locker is full of immature deer, the field must be full of mature deer. Your right, that's the only logical explanation.



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1843432 11/18/10 03:11 AM
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By TPWD logic, it follows that the TAXIDERMY SHOPS are full of mature deer that there are must be plenty out there too, right? deer2


Last edited by PHishTX; 11/18/10 03:18 AM. Reason: kant tipe

Originally Posted By: WMI report
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?

confused2TPWDconfused2
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1843470 11/18/10 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
Originally Posted By: HillbillyDeluxe
Originally Posted By: Cpack
I've told u, the proof was in the local processors cooler.


Sorry, but that ain't proof. I saw tons of great mature bucks at various processors for decades before this nonsense started. Guess that proves the opposite.

I want proof that it's working in my county on my ranch where I hunt. My experience from actually hunting tells me it has the exact opposite effect.
I saw mature deer at my processor too. But for every mature deer, there were 10 50 immature. That is proof we needed the law in erath county. I'm sure it was the same way in most counties in the state, but I can't prove that, and you will never admit it.
You are gonna have to give me proof that it does not work. Other than that one dang deer that you can't kill. All of y'all whine about the one deer that is ruining every deer within a radius of 10 miles of your ranch. That deer isn't gonna ruin anything, and that deer sure ain't proof ARs don't work


Fixed it for you. AR's have been working wonders on my ranch - I now get a chance to see a mature almost every weekend. Before AR's I was very lucky to see one ever other year.


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: PHishTX] #1843479 11/18/10 03:30 AM
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White tailed deer have been around since the stone age by evidence of bone and antler finds at archaeological dig sites, and have adjusted to their surroundings over time in order to survive.

Now with the AR's they are adapting by growing narrow racks in order to survive.

C'mon, give the white tailed deer some props for once again outsmarting their two legged predators.


Last edited by Jimbo; 11/18/10 03:32 AM.


Thursday at 12:45 PM
#33
Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Jimbo] #1843531 11/18/10 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jimbo
White tailed deer have been around since the stone age by evidence of bone and antler finds at archaeological dig sites, and have adjusted to their surroundings over time in order to survive.

Now with the AR's they are adapting by growing narrow racks in order to survive.

C'mon, give the white tailed deer some props for once again outsmarting their two legged predators.
Your jokin, right!



It is preponderant to prorogue verbalising and let the citizenry surmise that you are doltish, than to disseminate and expunge all skepticism
Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: rifleman] #1844189 11/18/10 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
smile

here are 3 bucks from the same 12000 acre mld (and heavily managed since the 60s...was HF for a long time and they just gave up on it...and moved their HF mgmt to the next county over away from the thickets and that is how Scrappin' Valley came into existance) property in an AR county from this morning. Not the first one over 13" @ 4.5. Not going to be able to change those brush buck genetics w/o changing the habitat, but one more yr just adds mass and a little tine length on these deer 9 times out of 10.



can still make out the frame on this one.


12" 12pt


Here's another pre-AR good un that would now be an illegal:



Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: Cpack] #1844267 11/18/10 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cpack
You are gonna have to give me proof that it does not work. Other than that one dang deer that you can't kill.


The proof is the deer that I see while hunting, both young and old, and the fact that deer that were once primary targets for very successful game management plans that I was a part of are now off limits and left to breed and produce similar bucks. BTW....not sure the size of your place, I hunt a 14,000 acre ranch with a very low amount of hunters per acre compared to most places. It doesn't work where we are and is actually a detriment. ALL of our hunters, many of whom have been hunting the ranch for 25 years or more and are quite experienced in game management, consider it a complete joke. And the fact that it's just more government intervention in our sport and our lives doesn't help.

Perhaps it works for you, but not for us, and there is no way you could prove it does because the proof doesn't exist.....therefore shouldn't be forced on the whole state based on a small amount of criteria nowhere near our ranch.


Re: Dadgum ARs!!! [Re: HillbillyDeluxe] #1844297 11/18/10 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: HillbillyDeluxe
Originally Posted By: Cpack
You are gonna have to give me proof that it does not work. Other than that one dang deer that you can't kill.


The proof is the deer that I see while hunting, both young and old, and the fact that deer that were once primary targets for very successful game management plans that I was a part of are now off limits and left to breed and produce similar bucks. BTW....not sure the size of your place, I hunt a 14,000 acre ranch with a very low amount of hunters per acre compared to most places. It doesn't work where we are and is actually a detriment. ALL of our hunters, many of whom have been hunting the ranch for 25 years or more and are quite experienced in game management, consider it a complete joke. And the fact that it's just more government intervention in our sport and our lives doesn't help.

Perhaps it works for you, but not for us, and there is no way you could prove it does because the proof doesn't exist.....therefore shouldn't be forced on the whole state based on a small amount of criteria nowhere near our ranch.


It sounds like y'all are into management more than most leases. Which is great and I applaud you for your efforts. Why not get on the MLD program then? 14,000 acres would definately qualify. Then you could get an extended season,liberal bag limits etc. And its FREE! Doesn't cost a dime. Then you can manage the place the way all of your hunters feel it needs to be. Only makes since. With that much land and depending on the density, you either need a lot of hunters to shoot the right number of deer numbers, or you and a few others could do it with the MLD Permits. Where is the place you hunt?



Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
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