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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: Brother in-law]
#8184117
02/26/21 12:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179 |
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184139
02/26/21 12:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 420
cheetah577
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 420 |
Glock 29 with a 15 round backup mag loaded with Underwood 180gr JHP and 140gr Xtreme predator. No, I'm not paranoid.......................
Last edited by cheetah577; 02/26/21 12:39 AM.
God bless John Wayne!
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184148
02/26/21 12:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658 |
I saw it and I thought the dude was wearing body armor initially
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn]
#8184152
02/26/21 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42
JM78255
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 42 |
Shot placement is important. With pistols- shot placement is everything.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184155
02/26/21 12:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658 |
It looked like he shot the guy center mass a few times at just a few feet
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184160
02/26/21 12:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,511
syncerus
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,511 |
The evidence is clear that only direct CNS hits or structural breakage hits (femur, pelvis, etc) are 100% reliable. Everything else is done on a "best effort" basis.
NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: Tactical Cowboy]
#8184165
02/26/21 01:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
2 to the chest 1 to the head This. He’d of dropped after the 3rd shot but I believe LEO are only “supposed” to shoot to slow down the threat, not kill the threat. I know as a LTC carrier we’re supposed to do the same but if I shot someone 10 times and they’re still coming, there’s 1 sure fire way to stop the threat and that’s head shot. Yeah.... I know a guy that got shot in the head by the popo, arrested, went to jail, and is out today to tell about it..... There will always be an anomaly. That scenario is not the norm of head shots. I’ve seen enough to know.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184169
02/26/21 01:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,131
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,131 |
Looks as if a plan came together , as the Officer started shooting he pretty much stopped getting hit by the stick. The bad guy was a dead man walking and there are many videos like this. More than likely the bad guy was mental or on drugs which makes it even more Interesting. Someone already mentioned heads, necks, and the pelvis will have a faster stopping action and I totally agree and should be practiced.
This Officer was lucky IMO as that guy was real close
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: LFD2037]
#8184183
02/26/21 01:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179 |
2 to the chest 1 to the head This. He’d of dropped after the 3rd shot but I believe LEO are only “supposed” to shoot to slow down the threat, not kill the threat. I know as a LTC carrier we’re supposed to do the same but if I shot someone 10 times and they’re still coming, there’s 1 sure fire way to stop the threat and that’s head shot. Yeah.... I know a guy that got shot in the head by the popo, arrested, went to jail, and is out today to tell about it..... There will always be an anomaly. That scenario is not the norm of head shots. I’ve seen enough to know. For sure. But I've also seen enough people shoot, that I dont think the majority would even be able to hit that guy in the head, one handed, while backing up and trying to dodge a stick....
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184208
02/26/21 01:35 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991
Kevin1
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991 |
Are you sure a headshot is not acceptable in a legitimate self defense scenario?
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: Kevin1]
#8184234
02/26/21 01:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179 |
Are you sure a headshot is not acceptable in a legitimate self defense scenario? Acceptable? Yes. Attainable by 95% of the population? Probably not.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: BigPig]
#8184318
02/26/21 02:59 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,261
deerfeeder
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,261 |
2 to the chest 1 to the head Thank you. At 12 feet a shot to the face seems like it might have produced results. I did not see the video.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: deerfeeder]
#8184320
02/26/21 03:01 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,131
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 35,131 |
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184367
02/26/21 03:50 AM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
RGVshooter
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 46 |
I carry a Glock 23 Gen 4 and with 13 rounds of 180gr HST's I feel safe enough. But it all depends on shot placement and more importantly, proper mind set.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184386
02/26/21 04:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,177
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
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The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,177 |
Dats why I carry a .40sw with 180s
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184391
02/26/21 04:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,352
RJH1
OP
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Interesting responses so far. For those that say after 2 shots to the chest on a moving target, while you are moving, then you would transition to the neck or head of a moving target while you are moving, have you ever attempted anything to simulate that? If so, did you attempt it with your carry gun?
I think even at the short ranges we are talking about, transitioning to a head shot on a moving target, while you are moving with a compact gun, while attempting to not get hit with a stick, or for instance stuck with a knife, may be considerably harder than you realize. I suggest you try it at speed at 3 steps and see how you do. I would think if you could do 3 shots in under a second, that might translate into being able to doing under stress.
And 3 shots in a second isn't that fast, shot one would start the clock, 2 should happen under .3 seconds and that would give you .7 for the transition and the head shot. If that sounds tough, remember neither you or the target are moving.
Last edited by RJH1; 02/26/21 04:20 AM.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184401
02/26/21 04:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,935
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,935 |
Interesting responses so far. For those that say after 2 shots to the chest on a moving target, while you are moving, then you would transition to the neck or head of a moving target while you are moving, have you ever attempted anything to simulate that? If so, did you attempt it with your carry gun?
I think even at the short ranges we are talking about, transitioning to a head shot on a moving target, while you are moving with a compact gun, while attempting to not get hit with a stick, or for instance stuck with a knife, may be considerably harder than you realize. I suggest you try it at speed at 3 steps and see how you do. I would think if you could do 3 shots in under a second, that might translate into being able to doing under stress.
And 3 shots in a second isn't that fast, shot one would start the clock, 2 should happen under .3 seconds and that would give you .7 for the transition and the head shot. If that sounds tough, remember neither you or the target are moving. Pistol up, Safety off, aim, 2 to the chest 1 to the head. Safety on, low ready, repeat. That's how I practice. Hopefully I've practiced it enough that if I ever have to do it, I'll be able to. I pray I'll never have to. And yes, I can do it in 1 second at typical self defense distances. My carry is a p938. 7+1, and no, I haven't considered switching to a full size with more capacity. Sometimes I even carry a revolver with even less capacity.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: unclebubba]
#8184407
02/26/21 04:45 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,352
RJH1
OP
Pro Tracker
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OP
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Interesting responses so far. For those that say after 2 shots to the chest on a moving target, while you are moving, then you would transition to the neck or head of a moving target while you are moving, have you ever attempted anything to simulate that? If so, did you attempt it with your carry gun?
I think even at the short ranges we are talking about, transitioning to a head shot on a moving target, while you are moving with a compact gun, while attempting to not get hit with a stick, or for instance stuck with a knife, may be considerably harder than you realize. I suggest you try it at speed at 3 steps and see how you do. I would think if you could do 3 shots in under a second, that might translate into being able to doing under stress.
And 3 shots in a second isn't that fast, shot one would start the clock, 2 should happen under .3 seconds and that would give you .7 for the transition and the head shot. If that sounds tough, remember neither you or the target are moving. Pistol up, Safety off, aim, 2 to the chest 1 to the head. Safety on, low ready, repeat. That's how I practice. Hopefully I've practiced it enough that if I ever have to do it, I'll be able to. I pray I'll never have to. And yes, I can do it in 1 second at typical self defense distances. My carry is a p938. 7+1, and no, I haven't considered switching to a full size with more capacity. Sometimes I even carry a revolver with even less capacity. Good deal, next can you do it walking backwards? And what about while walking sideways? The target still won't be moving, but at least you would be
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184410
02/26/21 04:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175
Ramhorn
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175 |
So, thoughts or opinions?
That did not make me rethink my carry gun. Mine is comfortable, reliable, powerful, and most of all It is an extension of my hand. I do not care to spend money, time , ammo and brain cells to change because I saw a random video.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184411
02/26/21 04:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716 |
Interesting responses so far. For those that say after 2 shots to the chest on a moving target, while you are moving, then you would transition to the neck or head of a moving target while you are moving, have you ever attempted anything to simulate that? If so, did you attempt it with your carry gun?
I think even at the short ranges we are talking about, transitioning to a head shot on a moving target, while you are moving with a compact gun, while attempting to not get hit with a stick, or for instance stuck with a knife, may be considerably harder than you realize. I suggest you try it at speed at 3 steps and see how you do. I would think if you could do 3 shots in under a second, that might translate into being able to doing under stress.
And 3 shots in a second isn't that fast, shot one would start the clock, 2 should happen under .3 seconds and that would give you .7 for the transition and the head shot. If that sounds tough, remember neither you or the target are moving. Yes Ive done it, on a paper target, up to 15 yards while side stepping, approaching and moving away front the target. It’s hard, takes practice and concentration, but it’s doable, especially at the distance the referenced shooting happened. The idea behind 2 to the chest and 1 to the head is the influx of body armor used bad criminals and who knows who else. When in a situation that dictates the use of deadly force, the job is to “stop the threat” and if the threat happens to die during that process of being stopped, well that’s just part of it.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184419
02/26/21 05:06 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,984
Buzzsaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,984 |
Link
Link
Link
please
Then, I'll tell yall how its done
Last edited by Buzzsaw; 02/26/21 05:07 AM.
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184426
02/26/21 05:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,935
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,935 |
Interesting responses so far. For those that say after 2 shots to the chest on a moving target, while you are moving, then you would transition to the neck or head of a moving target while you are moving, have you ever attempted anything to simulate that? If so, did you attempt it with your carry gun?
I think even at the short ranges we are talking about, transitioning to a head shot on a moving target, while you are moving with a compact gun, while attempting to not get hit with a stick, or for instance stuck with a knife, may be considerably harder than you realize. I suggest you try it at speed at 3 steps and see how you do. I would think if you could do 3 shots in under a second, that might translate into being able to doing under stress.
And 3 shots in a second isn't that fast, shot one would start the clock, 2 should happen under .3 seconds and that would give you .7 for the transition and the head shot. If that sounds tough, remember neither you or the target are moving. Pistol up, Safety off, aim, 2 to the chest 1 to the head. Safety on, low ready, repeat. That's how I practice. Hopefully I've practiced it enough that if I ever have to do it, I'll be able to. I pray I'll never have to. And yes, I can do it in 1 second at typical self defense distances. My carry is a p938. 7+1, and no, I haven't considered switching to a full size with more capacity. Sometimes I even carry a revolver with even less capacity. Good deal, next can you do it walking backwards? And what about while walking sideways? The target still won't be moving, but at least you would be I'm pretty confident in my abilities. Confident enough that when the gun comes up, muscle memory kinda takes over.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184456
02/26/21 10:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,288
HuntFish512
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,288 |
Nope I carry my 26 or 19 depending on day and what im wearing. I also work closely with LEO. I can tell you this, the officer cant retreat unless there is no other option. Once they fire they have to get control of the subject. As a citizen I can shoot and retreat and get to safety, I do not have to render aid or detain the person. They may be moving after my gun goes dry but I promise they wont be moving as well as I can. But if all that fails I feel confident in my hand to hand skills to survive.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184467
02/26/21 11:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,934
GasGuzzler
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,934 |
45 AUTO big and slow I'll take my chances
Pass the gravy.
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Re: Does this make you rethink your carry gun?
[Re: RJH1]
#8184515
02/26/21 01:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,352
RJH1
OP
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OP
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The main thing i think i took from this video for me is the NEED to transition if what you are doing isn't working. While i have practiced Mozambique drills, and even moving headshots on moving targets, i don't think i have ever really considered the NEED to switch from center mass to head/hip in an actual possible gunfight, even though i new it could a possibility. For me this video shows a slight change in mindset would be more beneficial than a change in equipment at this time
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