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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7652780
11/05/19 04:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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Ok Called Hornady. Their technical service guy said that yes they have had bullets fly apart mid-flight. He noted that most often it is caused by the rifling and or the crown, but could be caused by a couple other things. He said for me to check for excess copper build-up in the groves which creates friction causing the hollowpoint to rip open. He also said a sharp land that cuts or fractures the jacket can cause a mid-flight failure.
After reading some of these post I was beginning to think I was imagining things, and none of this happened.
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7652795
11/05/19 04:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,037
txtrophy85
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Ok Called Hornady. Their technical service guy said that yes they have had bullets fly apart mid-flight. He noted that most often it is caused by the rifling and or the crown, but could be caused by a couple other things. He said for me to check for excess copper build-up in the groves which creates friction causing the hollowpoint to rip open. He also said a sharp land that cuts or fractures the jacket can cause a mid-flight failure.
After reading some of these post I was beginning to think I was imagining things, and none of this happened. If you had been using a normal hunting bullet, it wouldn’t have separated. I’ve never heard of a bullet flying at .308 speeds comming apart mid flight. However, if it did in-fact happen, why would you want to that fragile a bullet on a deer? Order their ELD-X bullets if you want match accuracy in a hunting round.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7652803
11/05/19 04:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,979
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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Ok Called Hornady. Their technical service guy said that yes they have had bullets fly apart mid-flight. He noted that most often it is caused by the rifling and or the crown, but could be caused by a couple other things. He said for me to check for excess copper build-up in the groves which creates friction causing the hollowpoint to rip open. He also said a sharp land that cuts or fractures the jacket can cause a mid-flight failure.
After reading some of these post I was beginning to think I was imagining things, and none of this happened. Did the Hornady tech service guy also tell you to use a hunting bullet?
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: unclebubba]
#7652811
11/05/19 04:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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Ok Called Hornady. Their technical service guy said that yes they have had bullets fly apart mid-flight. He noted that most often it is caused by the rifling and or the crown, but could be caused by a couple other things. He said for me to check for excess copper build-up in the groves which creates friction causing the hollowpoint to rip open. He also said a sharp land that cuts or fractures the jacket can cause a mid-flight failure.
After reading some of these post I was beginning to think I was imagining things, and none of this happened. Did the Hornady tech service guy also tell you to use a hunting bullet? No, but I could tell he was thinking it.
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7652897
11/05/19 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,287
Hudbone
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Never heard of these issues with old fashioned lead tip bullets. I always thought they were extremely effective.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7652912
11/05/19 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,585
redchevy
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You should ask about this in the ammunition and reloading section.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653067
11/05/19 08:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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Why, is there a whole other group over there that will tell me to use a Hunting Bullet. lol Actually, I didn't even know there was a Ammo and Reloading section?
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653080
11/05/19 08:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! This is going to be my new Sig line
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653094
11/05/19 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,955
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
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Sorry for your troubles. Some things that stand out. Behind the shoulder does not typically = DRT. Did you see fragments or find their impacts behind the deer? I don't think you could hear fragments hitting at 115 yards after the shot.
Does the rifle has some type of muzzle device that isn't securely or properly fastened? Did you shoot it again after the hunt to try and figure out any issues? There isn't any kind of muzzle brake or Silencer mounted. My first thought was that I may have hit the fence wire which caused the bullet to break-up. I inspected the wire and there was no mark on it. Armalite recommends a BTHP Match grade bullet for the AR-10T. I tested these and some others and the Hornaby 168 gr BTHP Match bullets produced Moa groups for me. As far as the sound, it was almost calm and I certainly heard fragments hitting the brush behind the feeder. If I had pulled the shot, would have had somehow lifted this 15 lb rifle a half inch to cleanly miss the deer. That's what is so frustrating, either this scope has some serious cold weather issues or these bullets are POS. Right now I'm leaning 80% toward bullet failure. The second shot was on a moving target through Mesquite branches and leaves. I heard the bullet pas through the leaves of the mesquite also and hit the buck. I would think if it were the scope that would have been a clean miss as well. This will probably go over like a lead balloon...... Get yourself a real deer hunting setup and not something a flat brimmed wearer would show up with at the gun range and commence spraying ammo all over creation. It starts with a good, reliable rifle, good optics and not electronic crap, and good bullets of which there are many.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653101
11/05/19 09:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,585
redchevy
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Why, is there a whole other group over there that will tell me to use a Hunting Bullet. lol Actually, I didn't even know there was a Ammo and Reloading section? Because there is countless people over there that use match bullets hpbt's etc. to hunt with and do fine. And then maybe the point will get across.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: redchevy]
#7653106
11/05/19 09:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,979
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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Why, is there a whole other group over there that will tell me to use a Hunting Bullet. lol Actually, I didn't even know there was a Ammo and Reloading section? Because there is countless people over there that use match bullets hpbt's etc. to hunt with and do fine. And then maybe the point will get across. Agree, there are a lot of handloaders that use the match bullets with success. I also believe that a lot of them use the match bullets for head and neck shots. Most will probably tell you that for shoulder shots where you are likely to encounter bone, a hunting bullet that is designed to hold together would be a better choice. Without differing opinions, we wouldn't have anything to argue about.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: 68rustbucket]
#7653143
11/05/19 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 15
Foghornleghorn
Light Foot
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Try the Sierra Game King. I get mine at Academy, they are fairly priced. Using the 130's in my Creedmoor and they are VERY accurate. Sub MOA and for the most part sub half MOA and SD's in the 4's and 6's. That said I had some Sierra 130's back in the 70's blow up just under the skin at 30yds. After he got out to 100 and the last bullet dropped him. I expect these to do much better and the reports have been good. [img] [img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48111160788_c0291be642.jpg[/img]20190211_123655
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: redchevy]
#7653183
11/05/19 11:01 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 139
ScottA
Woodsman
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While im not a proponet of hunting with match bullets, I know thousands of deer and hogs are killed with them every year. You can blame it on whatever makes you feel good, but I don't think the bullet was your problem. +1. It would be quite unlikely for a bullet to disintegrate in the air. My guess is for some reason you missed. It happens to all of us occasionally. Lord knows it’s happened to me!
If you want something done, tell a Texan its impossible
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: ScottA]
#7653317
11/06/19 12:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,106
Nightlight
Pro Tracker
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While im not a proponet of hunting with match bullets, I know thousands of deer and hogs are killed with them every year. You can blame it on whatever makes you feel good, but I don't think the bullet was your problem. +1. It would be quite unlikely for a bullet to disintegrate in the air. My guess is for some reason you missed. It happens to all of us occasionally. Lord knows it’s happened to me! Last minute scope adjustments I speculate had something to do with it. But who knows
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653424
11/06/19 02:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,221
Grizz
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Why, is there a whole other group over there that will tell me to use a Hunting Bullet. lol Actually, I didn't even know there was a Ammo and Reloading section? This is exactly what will happen.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653498
11/06/19 03:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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In my mind, I conclude with absolute certainty bullet separation fits the facts as I know. When this happened the first time, I sent the rifle to my gunsmith and the scope to Sightmark trying to find the cause. If you have access to the archives of this forum you will see me asking if cold weather can make the POI in the Apex Thermal move. Both checked out perfectly. My scope was still in warranty, so if it was the scope, I wanted it fixed or replaced. Both times this occurred, I was using same ammo possibly out of the same box and the temps were in the 30's.
As far as me pulling a shot, that far, well that's absurd. I have killed multiple hogs including one that weighed 200lb's with a pellet gun at 125 yards out of the same deer blind. Shooting them in the heart no less. So to suggest I missed the shot is well ignorant to say not knowing me nor my ability. Additionally, we have the factory saying that it does happen and gives several reasons how, makes me wonder about some folks ability to comprehend what is written?
I think the stress of a cold barrel and bullet cracked the thin jacket causing it to rupture shortly after leaving the barrel. That's why I heard bullet fragments hitting the brush 40 yards behind feeder. The second shot was accurate and didn't separate because the barrel was warm. It is the only thing that fits the facts
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653551
11/06/19 05:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,676
Sneaky
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I have killed multiple hogs including one that weighed 200lb's with a pellet gun at 125 yards out of the same deer blind. Shooting them in the heart no less. The hell kind of pellet gun are you shooting?
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: Sneaky]
#7653561
11/06/19 05:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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I have killed multiple hogs including one that weighed 200lb's with a pellet gun at 125 yards out of the same deer blind. Shooting them in the heart no less. The hell kind of pellet gun are you shooting? It's an .257 AirForce Condor, that has a custom valve, airtank, a R&L shroud/silencer shooting a 80gr Ranch Dog Hollow Point. It is tuned to shoot 4 shots at around 1050 FPS producing 200 FPE. It is 50" long from Stem to Stern. Basically, it is an AirForce Texan Prototype.
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653635
11/06/19 12:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,037
txtrophy85
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^^^
Is that a match pellet or a hunting pellet?
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7653688
11/06/19 01:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,585
redchevy
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In my mind, I conclude with absolute certainty bullet separation fits the facts as I know. When this happened the first time, I sent the rifle to my gunsmith and the scope to Sightmark trying to find the cause. If you have access to the archives of this forum you will see me asking if cold weather can make the POI in the Apex Thermal move. Both checked out perfectly. My scope was still in warranty, so if it was the scope, I wanted it fixed or replaced. Both times this occurred, I was using same ammo possibly out of the same box and the temps were in the 30's.
As far as me pulling a shot, that far, well that's absurd. I have killed multiple hogs including one that weighed 200lb's with a pellet gun at 125 yards out of the same deer blind. Shooting them in the heart no less. So to suggest I missed the shot is well ignorant to say not knowing me nor my ability. Additionally, we have the factory saying that it does happen and gives several reasons how, makes me wonder about some folks ability to comprehend what is written?
I think the stress of a cold barrel and bullet cracked the thin jacket causing it to rupture shortly after leaving the barrel. That's why I heard bullet fragments hitting the brush 40 yards behind feeder. The second shot was accurate and didn't separate because the barrel was warm. It is the only thing that fits the facts The only facts are that you or your equipment screwed up. You know the saying 99% of mechanical failure is operator error.... After you claim to hear bullet fragments hit 40 yards behind a feeder at 115 yards so at 155 yards after the shot and hear a bullet going through mesquite leaves lol I know which I believe.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7653708
11/06/19 02:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2014
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^^^
Is that a match pellet or a hunting pellet?
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7680290
12/05/19 05:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,006
HornSlayer
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Went back to the lease and looked for any sign of the buck. Climbed up and down that dang Mountain going through the nastiest bunch of briar and thorns I've ever seen. I checked the gun and scope and all was good. Anyway, checked my gamecam and I guess this is the only trophy I'm gonna get on this one.
Last edited by HornSlayer; 12/05/19 05:41 AM.
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7680335
12/05/19 12:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 774
TexasUplander
Tracker
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Tracker
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You should have just let this thread DIE!
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7680362
12/05/19 01:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,087
Jasb
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I'd go to the store and get me a deer rifle and some ammo made for hunting...JMO
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Re: Frustrated
[Re: HornSlayer]
#7680386
12/05/19 01:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I better steer clear of this one....
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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