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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8501285 01/11/22 06:35 PM
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I intentionally do not have wind flags on my range. Because we do not have them while hunting.

Wytex, yall get wind speeds far above what we get. Short of a tornado the highest I've seen where I live is probably 35 mph.

Some of my largest wind holds that ended in a hit have been in Oklahoma and of course in Texas.

1240 yards 5.0 Mils right (18.9 feet at the target)

1440 yards 2.8 Mils left (12 feet at the target)

2180 yards 3.0 Mils left (19.6 feet at the target)


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: J.G.] #8501401 01/11/22 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
I intentionally do not have wind flags on my range. Because we do not have them while hunting.

Wytex, yall get wind speeds far above what we get. Short of a tornado the highest I've seen where I live is probably 35 mph.

Some of my largest wind holds that ended in a hit have been in Oklahoma and of course in Texas.

1240 yards 5.0 Mils right (18.9 feet at the target)

1440 yards 2.8 Mils left (12 feet at the target)

2180 yards 3.0 Mils left (19.6 feet at the target)


Been many a time we had to postpone hunting til the winds died down a bit. If you have to go out, plan your shots carefully.

Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Jgraider] #8501403 01/11/22 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jgraider
And as an aside......there are wind flags all the way out to every target from the "hub" location. Amazing how they can be doing such different things at distance, and in between actually. A real learning experience.


I spent a large part of my life north of Dumas, wind is predictable in that country. Not a whole of obstructions


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8501525 01/12/22 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Math



Oh, lawd. I'll just stay home then.


"Like a slice of fried gold!"
Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: J.G.] #8502581 01/13/22 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Judd
BC and velocity are the only two things that beat wind...you still have to read wind.


Add in bullet weight. Those are the top three factors.

Shooting farther than 500 yards my order of importance are:
1. B.C.
2. MV
3. Bullet weight

My standard 7mm-08 is a great example. 162 gr only coming out at 2640 fps MV. But I've handed it off to lots of people and they have zero trouble getting consistent hits, in any wind.


You don't need to add in bullet weight. The BC factors in the weight. Or in other words, same caliber bullet, same shape, the heavier bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient.

The two things that effect how much a bullet will drift in the wind are the BC (which is how much the air effects the bullet) and how much time it spends in the wind (which is determined by how far the bullet travels and how fast the bullet is going, ie velocity)


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8502592 01/13/22 05:58 AM
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The RO at one stage of the steel safari a few weeks ago told me after finishing my last of 6 targets out to 760 yards that while I was shooting his Kestrel was reading 57 mph wind gusts.
This was in New Mexico and after finishing I had to empty sand from my pockets and take my magazines apart to dump the sand out. It was windiest I have ever shot in.
I was using 130gr Berger’s in my 6.5 Creedmoor and they did about as well as anything else.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8502595 01/13/22 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Jgraider
And as an aside......there are wind flags all the way out to every target from the "hub" location. Amazing how they can be doing such different things at distance, and in between actually. A real learning experience.


I spent a large part of my life north of Dumas, wind is predictable in that country. Not a whole of obstructions

BoBo are you from the panhandle of Oklahoma? I went to school with several folks from that area.


Originally Posted by KRoyal
Sounds like a nice stick Fitz.

Originally Posted by Sailor
Fitz............. is right, ya know............
Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: VAFish] #8502674 01/13/22 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by VAFish
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Judd
BC and velocity are the only two things that beat wind...you still have to read wind.


Add in bullet weight. Those are the top three factors.

Shooting farther than 500 yards my order of importance are:
1. B.C.
2. MV
3. Bullet weight

My standard 7mm-08 is a great example. 162 gr only coming out at 2640 fps MV. But I've handed it off to lots of people and they have zero trouble getting consistent hits, in any wind.


You don't need to add in bullet weight. The BC factors in the weight. Or in other words, same caliber bullet, same shape, the heavier bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient.

The two things that effect how much a bullet will drift in the wind are the BC (which is how much the air effects the bullet) and how much time it spends in the wind (which is determined by how far the bullet travels and how fast the bullet is going, ie velocity)


Well, you're wrong.

Does the King of Two Miles shoot 22's? No.

Do .30 cals win the whole thing? No.

.375 Chey Tac and .416 Barrett wins it. I've got a .30 cal that shoots 250 grainers with a stupid high BC, and lots of speed. But it cannot reach the two mile mark with any consistency.


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8502752 01/13/22 01:50 PM
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Nothing BEATS high winds other than being indoors. All you can do is adjust for it no matter what you're shooting. Some need more adjustment than others. To reduce the effects of wind on your bullet, as stated above, combination of bullet BC/Weight, Velocity, and target distance.

Last edited by Precision_Shooter; 01/13/22 01:58 PM.
Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Big Fitz] #8502754 01/13/22 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Fitz
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Jgraider
And as an aside......there are wind flags all the way out to every target from the "hub" location. Amazing how they can be doing such different things at distance, and in between actually. A real learning experience.


I spent a large part of my life north of Dumas, wind is predictable in that country. Not a whole of obstructions

BoBo are you from the panhandle of Oklahoma? I went to school with several folks from that area.


Well, I’m here but yes that where our ranch is at.


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8502841 01/13/22 03:35 PM
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Guided missiles are not impacted by the wind much. What is your budget?

Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: J.G.] #8502937 01/13/22 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by VAFish
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Judd
BC and velocity are the only two things that beat wind...you still have to read wind.


Add in bullet weight. Those are the top three factors.

Shooting farther than 500 yards my order of importance are: and
1. B.C.
2. MV
3. Bullet weight

My standard 7mm-08 is a great example. 162 gr only coming out at 2640 fps MV. But I've handed it off to lots of people and they have zero trouble getting consistent hits, in any wind.


You don't need to add in bullet weight. The BC factors in the weight. Or in other words, same caliber bullet, same shape, the heavier bullet will have a higher ballistic coefficient.

The two things that effect how much a bullet will drift in the wind are the BC (which is how much the air effects the bullet) and how much time it spends in the wind (which is determined by how far the bullet travels and how fast the bullet is going, ie velocity)


Well, you're wrong.

Does the King of Two Miles shoot 22's? No.

Do .30 cals win the whole thing? No.

.375 Chey Tac and .416 Barrett wins it. I've got a .30 cal that shoots 250 grainers with a stupid high BC, and lots of speed. But it cannot reach the two mile mark with any consistency.

He’s saying bullet weight is part of the BC calculation…..more bullet weight = Higher BC.
BC is the bullets Sectional Density divided by its Form Factor, bullet weight is part of the sectional density equation.

Last edited by P_102; 01/13/22 05:21 PM.

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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: P_102] #8503001 01/13/22 07:07 PM
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Really Chris?

I know what he's saying.

To make this more simple. X caliber, X BC, X muzzle velocity, X weight.
Larger caliber, similar BC, similar muzzle velocity, MORE WEIGHT

The heavier one is less susceptible to wind drift, and carries more inertia, to get it farther out.


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8503017 01/13/22 07:48 PM
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I wasn't going to chime in, but what's been stated is incorrect. The question is discussing only wind drift. The weight of the bullet is already factored into the BC. So a heavier or lighter bullet with the same BC and launched at the same velocity will drift the EXACT same as the other bullet will.

For example, I was shooting my 300 WM pushing a 208 A-max at 2900 fps and a 338 Lapua was shooting next to me running the 250 grain Hornady BTHP at 2900 fps. The G7 BC of the 208 A-max is .324 and the G7 BC of the 250 Hornady BTHP is .322. They are almost identical BC. We were both zero'd at 100 yards and shooting a variety of targets on the way out to 1 mile. Our drop and wind drift was IDENTICAL to each others out to 1 mile. What you are saying is the heavier bullet will drift less and the lighter bullet will drift more, which is false.

What allows a bullet to drift less in the wind is ONLY muzzle velocity and BC. The weight of the bullet is already factored into the BC. So saying the weight of the bullet is a sole factor in wind drift is not correct. The weight has already been accounted for in the calculation of the BC. The weight of the bullet is the energy on target.



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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: ChadTRG42] #8503333 01/14/22 01:56 AM
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It is correct.

Been proven many times.


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8503343 01/14/22 02:14 AM
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The only thing that defeats high wind is higher wind


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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8503689 01/14/22 04:27 PM
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This argument is easy to settle. Put your favorite load into a reliable ballistics calculator and don't change anything but bullet weight. See if the windage correction changes.


Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #8503697 01/14/22 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This argument is easy to settle. Put your favorite load into a reliable ballistics calculator and don't change anything but bullet weight. See if the windage correction changes.


Exactly. Once you have the BC and muzzle velocity entered, the weight of the bullet DOES NOT MATTER!



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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: ChadTRG42] #8503785 01/14/22 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This argument is easy to settle. Put your favorite load into a reliable ballistics calculator and don't change anything but bullet weight. See if the windage correction changes.


Exactly. Once you have the BC and muzzle velocity entered, the weight of the bullet DOES NOT MATTER!



I had to try it for myself and I was surprised to see the results. Honestly, I was on Jason's line of thinking.


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Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Judd] #8504434 01/15/22 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
BC and velocity are the only two things that beat wind...you still have to read wind.

Today would be the day to practice it too, at least in N TX.

Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: ChadTRG42] #8504441 01/15/22 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ChadTRG42
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This argument is easy to settle. Put your favorite load into a reliable ballistics calculator and don't change anything but bullet weight. See if the windage correction changes.


Exactly. Once you have the BC and muzzle velocity entered, the weight of the bullet DOES NOT MATTER!


If that were the case a 55 gr 22-250 would be straight as an arrow out to a mile.. but blows around with some unpredictable things around 250-300 yards..

I understand the length and weight playing into bc, and what your saying.

I also get where Jason is coming from as well

And I still say, only thing that beats wind is a lot of practice and actually shooting in the conditions and knowing what the conditions are.

Interesting conversation though

Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8507483 01/18/22 11:07 PM
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To have a high BC, you need a high form factor for the caliber you are shooting. The form factor is basically how stream lined the bullet is, i.e., the shape of the bullet. Any of the light weight .224" bullets have a poor shape (soft point, flat base) and make a low form factor, which leads to a low BC. But you still have a low weight in the calculation of the BC. There are certain calibers that have heavy enough bullets with a relatively small diameter, like 6.5mm and 7mm, and have a high form factor, which creates a high BC. When you look at a 6.5mm, 153.5 grain Berger, it's a very sleek bullet with a low form factor.

If you look at the Berger link below, the bullets with the lowest form factor numbers in the low .9's and high .8's, they will also have the highest BC. The heavy bullets used for ELR (like the .375") are able to achieve a very high BC because they have a VERY high form factor, and the weight over the caliber keeps it low enough to provide a high BC. You need the right weight in combination with the right diameter and form factor to achieve the higher BC's. Combine the high velocity and a super high BC, like your 375 Cheytac rounds, and you increase your effective range. Weight is, obviously, a factor in calculating the BC. But for decreasing wind, and wind only, in regards to lighter vs heavier bullets, weight is not a factor. Why? Because the weight of the projectile is already accounted for in the BC calculation. That is why changing the weight of the bullet with the same velocity and BC does not change the wind drift (or drop). The only way to decrease the wind drift is to increase velocity and/or increase BC.


https://bergerbullets.com/information/lines-and-designs/bullet-reference-charts/



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Re: What defeats high winds? [Re: Homer Jay] #8507901 01/19/22 02:16 PM
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Agree to disagree.


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