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Realistic accuracy expectation from guns #8209402 03/21/21 02:22 AM
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Below is what I think is a realistic accuracy expectation for various type of guns in low wind and the ammo the gun likes. Please feel free to correct me if you feel I’m off in my estimates.
Also If your bolt Savage 22LR can do 0.5” at 100Y all day long, good for you….but that’s not a realistic expectation for a cheap 22lr.



Factory sporter bolt 1” at 100Y
Factory heavy barrel bolt 0.75” at 100Y
Factory high end bolt 0.6” at 100Y
Custom bolt 0.4” at 100Y
AR15 M4 1.5” at 100Y
AR15 high end 1” at 100Y
AR15 heavy barrel 0.75” at 100Y
AR15 heavy barrel high end 0.5” at 100Y
22 LR bolt .75” at 50Y 1.5” at 100Y at 100Y
22 LR high end bolt 0.3” at 50Y 0.8” at 100Y at 100Y
22lr semi auto 1” at 50Y
22lr semi auto high end 0.5” at 50Y
Bench rest rifle …..I don’t know. What do you think?
Polymer pistol 3.5” at 25Y
Metal frame pistol 2.5” at 25Y
Revolver 2.5” at 25Y

Feel free to add anything I missed.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209449 03/21/21 03:07 AM
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pretty dang spot on to me. Your benchrest boys will slit their wrists if they dont shoot in the 1's. all in pretty much the same hole.


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Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209534 03/21/21 06:26 AM
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I’m a bit of a snob, I won’t keep a rifle unless it’s 1/2 moa or better. Except for a couple “sentimental” rifles
Custom guns I expect 1/4 moa

I won’t keep a 22 unless it shoots under 1/2” at 50 realistically a smoking hot 22 will shoot between 1”-1.5” with a good driver and favorable wind out doors. I have never seen or witness anyone shoot a 22lr under 3/4” at 100 yards.


Your list is pretty spot on I’d say for off the shelf, little tinkering, minor mods shooting a premium loaded or hand load.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209626 03/21/21 01:20 PM
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It's amazing that everyone on the internet is a fantastic sub MOA shooter.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209638 03/21/21 01:39 PM
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If my revolvers shot 2 in groups at 25 yards I need to find out what is wrong.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209643 03/21/21 01:43 PM
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Yes it is . As the rangemaster for all the different matches every weekend for 20 years at public range I never saw the kind of shooting that is done on the internet . People with factory ammo and rifles , with no competition type rests or wind flags can out shoot most of the benchrest shooters in the matches I was at , I am glad they never showed up for the matches as I would have been in trouble . The few times some of these type people did show up to shoot in a match [ no matter what type ] something always went wrong with their gun , just bad luck .

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209671 03/21/21 02:18 PM
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Seems like every time I try to shoot 0.5 MOA groups with more than 3 shots, Mercury is in retrograde, the wind is over 2 mph, or my karma is off. My 5 or 10 shot groups just don't stand a chance against the universe.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209696 03/21/21 02:42 PM
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yep, there is an S-load of bs thrown out when it comes to this subject


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Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209751 03/21/21 03:55 PM
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This is a rabbit hole thread here but, let me clarify my statement.
I put the work into developing a load for each rifle I have and if I can’t get it under 1/2 moa I get rid of it or rebarrel it.

I will also maintain load data for about 2-3 different loads that shoot exceptionally well in case I can’t get or find the exact bullet powder or primer. This is what I do personally, if anyone thinks I’m blowing come on out to the range and y’all can video tape and post how bad I suck.

After all I did say I’m a snob when it comes to how the gun shoots.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209754 03/21/21 03:58 PM
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I think you nailed it

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209766 03/21/21 04:06 PM
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.22 numbers are a little to good

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Brother in-law] #8209804 03/21/21 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good

I been playing with Vudoo’s and Begara B14r shooting center-x and lot tested sk makes good numbers.
The Begara Friday morning did this at 100 over at quail creek off a bipod now may be a unicorn because I have been playing around with a tuner, but I’m really close to locking it down and calling it good. I wanna shoot like 5-10 groups more before I say it’s a straight up 1” gun.. at 100 yards.

I sold my Vudoo, because the Begara was so close to it in group size I couldn’t justify having it in my head.
I have swapped out the trigger for a Jewell set at 3oz, it’s in a Bravo chassis, with a Harrel’s tuner. I have polished the barrel with isso every time I have shot it and it will now clean up with two patches of bore tech rimfire blend.
Shoots .3-.4 at 50 yards with center x it shoots .2-.3 at 50 yards.

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Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: HicksHunter] #8209814 03/21/21 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HicksHunter
It's amazing that everyone on the internet is a fantastic sub MOA shooter.


Yep.

I’m pretty much in agreement with the OP’s expectations.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: diablodog] #8209821 03/21/21 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by diablodog
Yes it is . As the rangemaster for all the different matches every weekend for 20 years at public range I never saw the kind of shooting that is done on the internet . People with factory ammo and rifles , with no competition type rests or wind flags can out shoot most of the benchrest shooters in the matches I was at , I am glad they never showed up for the matches as I would have been in trouble . The few times some of these type people did show up to shoot in a match [ no matter what type ] something always went wrong with their gun , just bad luck .



roflmao Funny how that works.


Originally Posted by MikeC
Never underestimate a meth head!


Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: TAB] #8209853 03/21/21 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tabjlr
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good

I been playing with Vudoo’s and Begara B14r shooting center-x and lot tested sk makes good numbers.
The Begara Friday morning did this at 100 over at quail creek off a bipod now may be a unicorn because I have been playing around with a tuner, but I’m really close to locking it down and calling it good. I wanna shoot like 5-10 groups more before I say it’s a straight up 1” gun.. at 100 yards.

I sold my Vudoo, because the Begara was so close to it in group size I couldn’t justify having it in my head.
I have swapped out the trigger for a Jewell set at 3oz, it’s in a Bravo chassis, with a Harrel’s tuner. I have polished the barrel with isso every time I have shot it and it will now clean up with two patches of bore tech rimfire blend.
Shoots .3-.4 at 50 yards with center x it shoots .2-.3 at 50 yards.


I have also been playing with the tuner. I have a couple groups just less than an inch indoor. I can’t do it all the time

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Brother in-law] #8209860 03/21/21 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by tabjlr
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good

I been playing with Vudoo’s and Begara B14r shooting center-x and lot tested sk makes good numbers.
The Begara Friday morning did this at 100 over at quail creek off a bipod now may be a unicorn because I have been playing around with a tuner, but I’m really close to locking it down and calling it good. I wanna shoot like 5-10 groups more before I say it’s a straight up 1” gun.. at 100 yards.

I sold my Vudoo, because the Begara was so close to it in group size I couldn’t justify having it in my head.
I have swapped out the trigger for a Jewell set at 3oz, it’s in a Bravo chassis, with a Harrel’s tuner. I have polished the barrel with isso every time I have shot it and it will now clean up with two patches of bore tech rimfire blend.
Shoots .3-.4 at 50 yards with center x it shoots .2-.3 at 50 yards.


I have also been playing with the tuner. I have a couple groups just less than an inch indoor. The ammo can't do it all the time


FIFY

Most frustrating part of rimfire.


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Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: HicksHunter] #8209868 03/21/21 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HicksHunter
It's amazing that everyone on the internet is a fantastic sub MOA shooter.


roflmao

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: FiremanJG] #8209912 03/21/21 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by tabjlr
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good

I been playing with Vudoo’s and Begara B14r shooting center-x and lot tested sk makes good numbers.
The Begara Friday morning did this at 100 over at quail creek off a bipod now may be a unicorn because I have been playing around with a tuner, but I’m really close to locking it down and calling it good. I wanna shoot like 5-10 groups more before I say it’s a straight up 1” gun.. at 100 yards.

I sold my Vudoo, because the Begara was so close to it in group size I couldn’t justify having it in my head.
I have swapped out the trigger for a Jewell set at 3oz, it’s in a Bravo chassis, with a Harrel’s tuner. I have polished the barrel with isso every time I have shot it and it will now clean up with two patches of bore tech rimfire blend.
Shoots .3-.4 at 50 yards with center x it shoots .2-.3 at 50 yards.


I have also been playing with the tuner. I have a couple groups just less than an inch indoor. The ammo can't do it all the time


FIFY

Most frustrating part of rimfire.


You guys are right, but so far it’s been hovering right around an inch at 100 so I am excited to see when it gets warmer if it will stay. So far the tuner is and has only needed one to three hash mark adjustments from day to day.
I have only shot 200 or so rounds so far with it.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8209980 03/21/21 09:51 PM
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Personally I think most modern factory bolt action rifles are capable of 1- 1.5l” MOA with good factory ammunition. If you reload, upgrade trigger and add a. aftermarket stock you could get it to shoot .5- 1 MOA. Now, if the shooter is capable of consistent sub MOA is a whole other story.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8210050 03/21/21 10:59 PM
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Any gun I have ever picked up will outshoot me and my needs.


Originally Posted by MikeC
Never underestimate a meth head!


Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Brother in-law] #8210069 03/21/21 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good


How would you update the below numbers?

22 LR bolt .75” at 50Y 1.5” at 100Y
22 LR high end bolt 0.3” at 50Y 0.8” at 100Y at 100Y
22lr semi auto 1” at 50Y
22lr semi auto high end 0.5” at 50Y

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: TAB] #8210079 03/21/21 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tabjlr
I’m a bit of a snob, I won’t keep a rifle unless it’s 1/2 moa or better. Except for a couple “sentimental” rifles
Custom guns I expect 1/4 moa

I won’t keep a 22 unless it shoots under 1/2” at 50 realistically a smoking hot 22 will shoot between 1”-1.5” with a good driver and favorable wind out doors. I have never seen or witness anyone shoot a 22lr under 3/4” at 100 yards.


Your list is pretty spot on I’d say for off the shelf, little tinkering, minor mods shooting a premium loaded or hand load.


I'm exactly like you.
I have no (limited) interest in guns shooting over 0.5 MOA nor in any 22lr not shooting below 0.5" at 50Y.

But I think you're a bit optimistic on 1/4MOA with custom guns. I'm talking about getting consistent accuracy. Not 1/4 moa here and there.


The reason I created this topic was also to remind myself what I need to expect when I buy a gun.
For instance, I bought a new new factory Remington VLS in 223. The gun is beautiful, functions perfectly but it doesn't shoot any better than 0.7" at 100Y even with reloads. Honestly I was a little disappointed but my expectation to get a 0.5 MOA factory gun was not realistic.
Another example....I'd really like to buy a new CZ 457, but I'll probably disappointed by it's accuracy as ultimately I'll end up comparing it to my Vudoo or Anschutz.



Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8210115 03/22/21 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin1
Originally Posted by tabjlr
I’m a bit of a snob, I won’t keep a rifle unless it’s 1/2 moa or better. Except for a couple “sentimental” rifles
Custom guns I expect 1/4 moa

I won’t keep a 22 unless it shoots under 1/2” at 50 realistically a smoking hot 22 will shoot between 1”-1.5” with a good driver and favorable wind out doors. I have never seen or witness anyone shoot a 22lr under 3/4” at 100 yards.


Your list is pretty spot on I’d say for off the shelf, little tinkering, minor mods shooting a premium loaded or hand load.


I'm exactly like you.
I have no (limited) interest in guns shooting over 0.5 MOA nor in any 22lr not shooting below 0.5" at 50Y.

But I think you're a bit optimistic on 1/4MOA with custom guns. I'm talking about getting consistent accuracy. Not 1/4 moa here and there.


The reason I created this topic was also to remind myself what I need to expect when I buy a gun.
For instance, I bought a new new factory Remington VLS in 223. The gun is beautiful, functions perfectly but it doesn't shoot any better than 0.7" at 100Y even with reloads. Honestly I was a little disappointed but my expectation to get a 0.5 MOA factory gun was not realistic.
Another example....I'd really like to buy a new CZ 457, but I'll probably disappointed by it's accuracy as ultimately I'll end up comparing it to my Vudoo or Anschutz.




1/4 MOA is what I expect out of properly built custom centerfire rifles.

1/2 MOA is not uncommon out of "some" mass produced rifles.

Both on a hand load tuned to them of course. Mass production ammo is most likely not to achieve those stats.


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Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8210165 03/22/21 12:44 AM
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I Fully expect 1/4 moa from a full custom. In fact I had a rifle built on a Tikka action that would consistently do it. Now, the current rifle that I’ve built myself is not near as consistent, I still need to bed it. Sometimes it shoots .2s and sometimes it shoots whatever it wants. I’ve also had factory rifles that are plagued with inaccuracy.

Re: Realistic accuracy expectation from guns [Re: Kevin1] #8210204 03/22/21 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin1
Originally Posted by Brother in-law
.22 numbers are a little to good


How would you update the below numbers?

22 LR bolt .75” at 50Y 1.5” at 100Y
22 LR high end bolt 0.3” at 50Y 0.8” at 100Y at 100Y
22lr semi auto 1” at 50Y
22lr semi auto high end 0.5” at 50Y


A little less on the custom bolt at 100 and a little better on the custom semi at 50

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