Doesn't take an expert deer hunter to understand everyone else that doesn't hunt and how they affect our politics. Also, you don't have to get nasty to convey your opinions. But I have gotten accustomed to that from a few.

Our enemies do little of nothing for conservation. They pay their attorneys some $60 an hour to sue the government, then they are reimbursed some $300 per hour of litigation. They pretend to play nice while policies are being made, then they turn around and sue the governent and use us to do it. To quote Randy Newberg "If they win they win, if they lose they still win and you never know what they won."

This is what has happened with wolves. They were supposed to be de-listed at less than a fifth of what we have now, and be managed by the states . These groups went straight to court the very next day after it was settled and started litigating.

I might be a novice deer hunter but at least I have an idea what is going on with the politics of the sport.

And I am not going to single anybody out, but I will say this- how much do you trust the opinion of someone that stands to make a handsome sum off high fence hunting, or lose equally as much if it is not allowed?

Yet another gray area that some people are convinced that it's black and white.

Yeppers

x2

X3

You haven’t even worked your way UP to a novice hunter yet.

You still have no idea what it’s like to own a place, work it for years & try to make a nice place out of it.

Like the 14 year old virgin telling Ron Jeremy about women.

So if the non hunting public doesn’t like high fences, we should avoid them. And if they don’t like bow hunting? How about all of hunting?

And you thought he couldn't get nastier. That's our max!

Not even close. And your insults prove my point. You may care about future generations of hunters, or you may not, but your continued insults and refusal to engange in the discussion intelligently prove my point, Max. You are more worried about your bottom line, which IN SOME CASES (not all) depends on shooting deer in pens.

Why can't you bring something to the table that points out the advantages of high fence operations done right?

I think you can't, because you stand to make good money or represent those who stand to make good money off "pens", which should be distinguished from high fence operations instead of lumped together with them. The "grey".

The 95% plus of the non hunting public, are readily sucked in by our enemies when it comes to any high fences, and can't distinguish the difference because they don't know the difference. They start threads like this one and use stuff people like you will post, and use it against us.

What are you posting to distinguish the difference between a legitimate high fence operation and a pen? Nothing. Since you can't engage in the discussion, you chose to insult and assasinate the character of anyone that is contrary to your position. What a great ambassador you have proven to be. If I have learned anything from you, it is that your level of experience does not make you a "good hunter" and neither does your level of success.

note to BCH, fair chase and the legality/morality of hunting are separate issues. If not slaughter of animals would not be allowed. Take your finger out of the dike. The whole you believe is there is not. Believe in those that are on your side and avoid taking sides with what is, the true enemy.

Never thought I would be agreeing with this......lol.

Bryan, you will never appease the non-hunting until you agree to end hunting......a better use of time and energy is united to protect the legal hunting we have now.......don’t get caught up in the shooting in the pen argument, what happens in that type of hunt is no different than the way live stock is slaughtered every day......think logically not emotionally......

Yep, listen to PP and consider changing your screen name to GrassHopper.

Before you eat to much crow on this. Vast majority of HF ranches, don’t sell hunts. Next is a few that solely sell a few it’s to lessen the expenses, but don’t typical cover all them.

The ones that are solely for hunts are managing things extremely different, breeding deer isn’t about the biggest bucks, it’s about lowering the age required to get to a certain size, thus lowering your costs.

The true hunt companies for most part are just diversifying income, with creative accounting. It’s not an extremely profitable endeavor though. Most are backed by other company(ies) and it’s more a creative write off for them.

I am thinking logically and I mostly agree with you. The point I am trying to make is lost on most of you it seems. Anyone that is gonna sit there and make jokes, and sling insults, is going to lose in the long run. And if we can't police ourselves, someone else will do it for us.

If anyone is posting emotionally on here it is the one that resolved to insults from the very start. But he's a popular guy on the forum and probably has done a lot for access to some hunters willing and able to pay.

Some of ya'll will sit here in this thread and yuck it up, then over in the corona virus thread you are solemn and serious. Is this not serious enough a subject to have a conversation? I guess not, on this forum, to alot of people.

Anyway PP I appreciate you brother.

Thank you BOBO.

Wait a minute, Max Flav is popular?

HF killed the virus. Hoo Raw

I bet most can get on board with landowners doing what they can to stay in business and keep their property from getting bought, sold, split. Whatever it takes to preserve habitat. There is a good start. Thank you BOBO

I got bigger problems - the wife keeps putting out the TP bought at the height of the panic, in an effort to use it up. I've wiped with higher quality stuff in a state park rest room (when they were open). Single-ply is now an "upgrade".

No problem, very few on here are willing to see both sides. I like the way you are truely open to it.

If you ever want to see something funny get on a Western forum and wait for a biologist or Ranch Manager from texas chimes in. It pretty funny because the western guys for most part a clueless to habitat, carry capacity, ratios, levels of preferred browse etc. but preach from a pulpit... that pulpit is pretty bare with out a solid understanding of what it’s built on.

Most Texas hunters as a whole are more intune with habitat and herd health then most other hunters, that knowledge escalates as a perimeter deterrent goes up

Sir, you can order a case of wet wipes via Amazon prime same day delivery. If they are out, switch to boogie whiles, same thing, more creative branding

His brashness and snarkiness can be funny as long as its not directed at you-YOU know what i mean:)

Pitchs comment comparing pen hunting and cattle slaughter is probably the best line of thinking to rationalize pen hunting(no sarcasm). I dont have a big problem with HF hunting but PERSONALLY I think the small pens create a bad look. If you look at it like a cattle slaughter then its not too bad. I just wish they would skip the grip and grin photos.

I think most everyone can agree with that one. Keep looking for common ground Bryan.

I always look at both sides of anything but often times on here if you just point out the "other" side you will be blasted as if you take that side.
I have spent a lifetime deer hunting almost exclusively in Texas and Bobos comments about habitat etc etc etc became ingrained in me long ago. I never really thought about how foreign some of that thinking probably is to Western hunting and others. Texas pretty much did start all the "deer management" stuff(thanks Al and Murphy.) The HF would be an extension of the "management" concept, so thanks Bobo, good post!!