High Fence Hunting?

How do y’all feel about hunting large acreage under high fence? 2,000+ acres all low fence cross fencing, no introduced genetics or breeding program, just native deer on a very large tract of high fenced land. Or exotics On the same large tract of land?

I feel that in the case of high fences, a person should follow ones own ethical standards and not seek the opinions of total strangers on which path to take

For me it’s all circumstantial, a 100 acre pen isn’t for me, but on a large enough place I would have no problem. I know it’s very controversial and I’m not looking to start any arguments with anybody or amongst others. Just seeing if people felt different about them under certain circumstances.

Sir do whatever you feel is good for you. Nothing wrong, unethical, or illegal hunting HF. If you feel good with it then do it. Does not matter what others think. Good luck

Again? Really?

What is the actual question? You are doing it or just wondering? I would do it for myself but not others. It's an expensive experiment involving a lot of time and money.

A belated to you. This is a tired old war on here and just isn't the same without some of the zealots that are no longer signed on, of whom no reason or logic would persuade. 100 sections under high fence was a "pen" to them.

For 4 years I hunted a 10,000 acre high fence pasture, as you described, low (old) cross fences, no protein or introduced genetics. I enjoyed the property and the hunting very much. Some would look down there snoot at me, but...at least I didn't hunt it with a 6.5 Creed.

Not again.

Different than 2000 acres low fence, but what ev

X1,000,000,000,000

Covid 19 and now HF-LF? It is too much for and old fart to handle.

"Different than 2000 acres low fence, but what ev", I can tell you what ev. I have 1st hand knowledge of a completely legitimate & successful 2,200 acre place that was being raped by its smaller tract neighbors and had HF installed to protect themselves. If I had beet LO, I would have done the very same thing and even though it created a bunch of cost and time requirements.

It sounds like a lot on here are tired of this debate and I am too. I do not want to debate it but I do wish you would clarify something thats confusing to me. Are you saying the HF is 2000+ acres or you are hunting a 2000+ ac pasture thats been cross fenced out of a much bigger HF area??? It wont matter to some but in case this debate starts to rage then it would be helpful to know the facts.
One thing we will likely find out is if a certain member thats been silent for a good while is really gone or not cause no way will he let this one slide by.

It's a silly argument. The same people that will castigate you for hunting 2k HF acres have no problem sitting 50 yds from a feeder and murdering deer while calling it 'hunting'. As long as what you are doing is legal and poses no danger to anyone else, carry on.

Now Now, there is no place for logic in this thread.

It's a personal decision, you be you. When and if you do it, and are successful, tell us about it. Hunters that post pic's are looking for recognition, and there's nothing wrong with being recognized and complimented by your peers. Don't hold back on the details if you post up a great buck. A frequently asked question on a post is, "HF or LF", so go ahead and include it. Hunters want to know.

You are at the top of the food chain, laws and methods of take were created solely for sustainability of a resource. If how you hunt still ensures sustainability then who cares.

But in a nut shell if your are solely hunting to conform or based off someone else’s opinion of your experience or animal you are hunting for wrong reasons.

So says BOBO

I'll put this out there and you can take it for what it's worth.

I guided on a place that was HF in the hill country, and one of our pastures was a measily 250 acres with no introduced deer etc, it was completely native. WE had 4 bucks that were 3.5-4.5 YO on it. There were 3 feeder/stand locations and 2 protein feeders. All 5 spots always had cameras on them. I'm sitting in the blind one evening and see a buck walk in, and couldn't ID him. Got good video of him and called it a night. That buck was guestimated at 4.5 YO himself, and not one time had he been seen in person, or on any of those cameras until I saw him that night. We all thought it was pretty wild.

I'm all for Native HF hunting, it's just an easier way to control population numbers.

To each is own. I've had fun on both HF and LF. Enjoy being out in the woods wherever you are.

Grew up hunting public land in Arkansas and Oklahoma, so anything other than that is wrong...

I find it humorous that the same guy hunting over a feeder or food plot will crucify someone that hunts HF. It’s ALL non-natural manipulation to tip the odds in the hunter’s favor. If it is legal, and you want to do it, then do it. If it’s legal, and you DON’T want to do it, DON’T do it.

Are you new to hunting forums, or just bored?

Depends, can mosquitoes get through it?

So long as the resource is consumed and no laws are broken, I say to each his own. It doesn't appeal to me but so do many other things that some folks like to do.

I love me some high fence fishing,, high fence hunting isn't any different, of course depending on the size of the enclosed area.

Put a half dozen 16lb bass in a 300 gallon water trough makes catching one easy, in a 2 acre tank harder, in a 10,000 acre lake your chances are slim.

Lord help us - another HF/LF "debate" building.
The real issue to debate is why my 6.5 Creedmoor and .223 rounds penetrate paper so well but bounce off of deer.

It's common knowledge that they are both inferior!

That has to be it. The right answer is usually the most obvious.

So a guy with less then 20 posts starts trolling us about high fences. Be very careful what you tell them.

This is a tactic anti-hunting groups use, to stir the pot and trigger hunters into posting and or saying nasty things, which they use to build their case.

Regards to high fence hunting, my question is this: is the fence there to contain wildlife or to protect it?

If it serves the purpose to contain the wildlife you can't honestly say it is hunting. If it is there to protect the herd and big enough they can range on it freely, that changes the conversation.

get a rope

My question had to do with under certain circumstance would peoples opinions change about hunting a high fenced place. I like to learn and see things from other people’s experiences and view points.

Most people learn and see things from their own perspective not from what others tell them.

I know a guy who erected HF 150 yards within his property lines. Hunted both sides.

I can relate to that. If you shoot a coyote in a HF is that not ethical?

If you shared a life raft with 6 other people, and one started drilling a hole in the bottom, would you "stick together"?

On a big high fence place where the animals can free range, they still can't "technically" escape.

Regardless of the challenge, whether it feels like hunting to us, the vast majority of non hunters can't get behind high fence operations because at the end of the day, it is still technically a "pen". As long as we condone that sort of thing, the anti's will use it against us.

Sometimes when you stick together you sink together.

I have no doubt there are excellent high fence places. High fences gained popularity because they can help protect a herd from predators as well as poachers and other hunters that take all they can and don't participate in conservation or management efforts.

But there are enough "pens" out there to ruin it. In MY OPINION, Yep just my own, if you truly care about the future of hunting, you can't support high fence operations.

Now we’ve got a proper high fence party.

Oh yeahhhhh....let the games begin!

You're welcome

You're wrong

Back to the future. What goes around comes around. So which I have never gotten an answer everyone agrees on. What height is a HF? Is it the same for all animals? If you have a zebra in a 4ft. fence is that considered a HF? If you have an animal in a HF and take it out and it is shot is that OK since it was raised HF? Me being 73 years old I am just trying to educate myself on HF-LF so I am able to carry on an informed conversation.

What a refreshing diversion from arguing about masks!

"If you shared a life raft with 6 other people, and one started drilling a hole in the bottom, would you "stick together"?" Quite the analogy.

I’m amazed that someone with as little hunting experience as yourself has such a developed opinion on something you don’t know much about. Of course your welcome to your own opinion & all, but if I recall correctly, you don’t really know jack [censored] about hunting.

It’s akin to 14 year old thinking he’s an expert on banging chicks. BTW, the whole life raft analogy is terrible & has no bearing on the subject at hand.

Many experts on here have killed very few deer.

Doesn't take an expert deer hunter to understand everyone else that doesn't hunt and how they affect our politics. Also, you don't have to get nasty to convey your opinions. But I have gotten accustomed to that from a few.

Our enemies do little of nothing for conservation. They pay their attorneys some $60 an hour to sue the government, then they are reimbursed some $300 per hour of litigation. They pretend to play nice while policies are being made, then they turn around and sue the governent and use us to do it. To quote Randy Newberg "If they win they win, if they lose they still win and you never know what they won."

This is what has happened with wolves. They were supposed to be de-listed at less than a fifth of what we have now, and be managed by the states . These groups went straight to court the very next day after it was settled and started litigating.

I might be a novice deer hunter but at least I have an idea what is going on with the politics of the sport.

And I am not going to single anybody out, but I will say this- how much do you trust the opinion of someone that stands to make a handsome sum off high fence hunting, or lose equally as much if it is not allowed?

Yet another gray area that some people are convinced that it's black and white.

Yeppers

x2

X3

You haven’t even worked your way UP to a novice hunter yet.

You still have no idea what it’s like to own a place, work it for years & try to make a nice place out of it.

Like the 14 year old virgin telling Ron Jeremy about women.

So if the non hunting public doesn’t like high fences, we should avoid them. And if they don’t like bow hunting? How about all of hunting?

And you thought he couldn't get nastier. That's our max!

Not even close. And your insults prove my point. You may care about future generations of hunters, or you may not, but your continued insults and refusal to engange in the discussion intelligently prove my point, Max. You are more worried about your bottom line, which IN SOME CASES (not all) depends on shooting deer in pens.

Why can't you bring something to the table that points out the advantages of high fence operations done right?

I think you can't, because you stand to make good money or represent those who stand to make good money off "pens", which should be distinguished from high fence operations instead of lumped together with them. The "grey".

The 95% plus of the non hunting public, are readily sucked in by our enemies when it comes to any high fences, and can't distinguish the difference because they don't know the difference. They start threads like this one and use stuff people like you will post, and use it against us.

What are you posting to distinguish the difference between a legitimate high fence operation and a pen? Nothing. Since you can't engage in the discussion, you chose to insult and assasinate the character of anyone that is contrary to your position. What a great ambassador you have proven to be. If I have learned anything from you, it is that your level of experience does not make you a "good hunter" and neither does your level of success.

note to BCH, fair chase and the legality/morality of hunting are separate issues. If not slaughter of animals would not be allowed. Take your finger out of the dike. The whole you believe is there is not. Believe in those that are on your side and avoid taking sides with what is, the true enemy.

Never thought I would be agreeing with this......lol.

Bryan, you will never appease the non-hunting until you agree to end hunting......a better use of time and energy is united to protect the legal hunting we have now.......don’t get caught up in the shooting in the pen argument, what happens in that type of hunt is no different than the way live stock is slaughtered every day......think logically not emotionally......

Yep, listen to PP and consider changing your screen name to GrassHopper.

Before you eat to much crow on this. Vast majority of HF ranches, don’t sell hunts. Next is a few that solely sell a few it’s to lessen the expenses, but don’t typical cover all them.

The ones that are solely for hunts are managing things extremely different, breeding deer isn’t about the biggest bucks, it’s about lowering the age required to get to a certain size, thus lowering your costs.

The true hunt companies for most part are just diversifying income, with creative accounting. It’s not an extremely profitable endeavor though. Most are backed by other company(ies) and it’s more a creative write off for them.

I am thinking logically and I mostly agree with you. The point I am trying to make is lost on most of you it seems. Anyone that is gonna sit there and make jokes, and sling insults, is going to lose in the long run. And if we can't police ourselves, someone else will do it for us.

If anyone is posting emotionally on here it is the one that resolved to insults from the very start. But he's a popular guy on the forum and probably has done a lot for access to some hunters willing and able to pay.

Some of ya'll will sit here in this thread and yuck it up, then over in the corona virus thread you are solemn and serious. Is this not serious enough a subject to have a conversation? I guess not, on this forum, to alot of people.

Anyway PP I appreciate you brother.

Thank you BOBO.

Wait a minute, Max Flav is popular?

HF killed the virus. Hoo Raw

I bet most can get on board with landowners doing what they can to stay in business and keep their property from getting bought, sold, split. Whatever it takes to preserve habitat. There is a good start. Thank you BOBO

I got bigger problems - the wife keeps putting out the TP bought at the height of the panic, in an effort to use it up. I've wiped with higher quality stuff in a state park rest room (when they were open). Single-ply is now an "upgrade".

No problem, very few on here are willing to see both sides. I like the way you are truely open to it.

If you ever want to see something funny get on a Western forum and wait for a biologist or Ranch Manager from texas chimes in. It pretty funny because the western guys for most part a clueless to habitat, carry capacity, ratios, levels of preferred browse etc. but preach from a pulpit... that pulpit is pretty bare with out a solid understanding of what it’s built on.

Most Texas hunters as a whole are more intune with habitat and herd health then most other hunters, that knowledge escalates as a perimeter deterrent goes up

Sir, you can order a case of wet wipes via Amazon prime same day delivery. If they are out, switch to boogie whiles, same thing, more creative branding

His brashness and snarkiness can be funny as long as its not directed at you-YOU know what i mean:)

Pitchs comment comparing pen hunting and cattle slaughter is probably the best line of thinking to rationalize pen hunting(no sarcasm). I dont have a big problem with HF hunting but PERSONALLY I think the small pens create a bad look. If you look at it like a cattle slaughter then its not too bad. I just wish they would skip the grip and grin photos.

I think most everyone can agree with that one. Keep looking for common ground Bryan.

I always look at both sides of anything but often times on here if you just point out the "other" side you will be blasted as if you take that side.
I have spent a lifetime deer hunting almost exclusively in Texas and Bobos comments about habitat etc etc etc became ingrained in me long ago. I never really thought about how foreign some of that thinking probably is to Western hunting and others. Texas pretty much did start all the "deer management" stuff(thanks Al and Murphy.) The HF would be an extension of the "management" concept, so thanks Bobo, good post!!

I think you're right freerange. Just remember that lardazzzed, rich lawyer types need a place where they can go kill something
too.

I had to isolate this 1 sentence from your delusional post.

Please understand, not only do you not know much, anything that you think you know is likely wrong.

I’m 6th generation on this ranch. My people came here 140 years ago. We have all worked very hard on the land, & never made much of anything. You keep talking about big money this, rich & fancy that; when you have no idea at all as to what is involved I making a nice ranch. I am lucky to break even every year. I dont do this for the money.

You blabber on about [censored] you have no idea about. Most people would stop & shut up at some point, but you are just like a Karen.

As to your stupid question, HF allows 100% management of animals. That’s an advantage for everyone, animals included. Because then dip sticks like yourself can shoot every 2 year old on their 40ac lease.

Hey how did the rabbit hunting go? Maybe 1 day you can work your way up to other animals, maybe 1 day even a deer. I’m sure you’ll shoot the first thing you get a chance to. Meanwhile, I’m growing big & old bucks; & producing lots of does to have more deer in the future. All the while your pathetic broke-dick is sittiing in the suburbs wishing you could deer hunt.

You do realize HF ranches (& LF ranches with management) feed a lot of protein & develop habitat hatbis beneficial to deer? You don’t know anything, but I spend about $20k/year on feeding deer, & not so ungrateful idiots can come shoot a 2 year old buck.

Just this weekend, I had a family of 4 men who came & enjoyed a great weekend of hog hunting & friendship, cheaper than a hotel or almost any other vacation activity.

Your jealousy for what other people have is very telling of your low character. There are lota people with a better ranch than mine, but I’m not calling them an [censored]. Someone else having a nice place doesn’t effect me at all.

You need to focus more on yourself & learning something about deer & ranches.

Why don’t you move back to whatever Yankee state you came from? I hear there’s good rabbit hunting there.

You should change your handle to “Karen the rabbit hunter”.

That’s certainly unwelcome news to me also

I’m an equal opportunity [censored]. I dislike most people intensely.

I think GrassHopper needs to understand if the stance is to make us look better to the anti-hunter segment, you just never gonna get there. Stop that crapola right now. Stand on your ground, on your terms and defend it mightily. Agreeing with them on most anything is justa slippery slope. Just cuz somes rightfully believe there are some atrocious use of high fences, where do you go with it? With the wolves re-intro committee, they loaded that puppy up with a one (as in a single) land owner and everyone else was pro-wolf. Where's they think that stance was going to be pointed at. Give in anywhere and then they look at the next. Maybe it's pig hunting at night, rabbit hunting anytime or shooting does. Who knows, but I do know this, they won't stop at high fences.

As for me, the place we hunt is technically low fence, but I would pay to hunt a high fence place if everything was acceptable to my best interests. Even so, I would not look down on someone who chose to hunt in their own way. Frankly, we need more people willing to get out there and not less. If I were to hunt HF, I would likely look to hunt with someone cheerful like Max. I bet he would be a hoot. Another bet here is he would go out of his way to make things right for me. Probably a lil' teddy bear kinda guy. Maybe I'll start referring to him as Sonnenschein (Sunshine in Deutch).

Yep, I’m also sick of the “what about the people who don’t hunt” crowd. People like Karen the rabbit hunter throw that out, like I give good GD.



The name is kinda growing on me. I’ll start practicing the spelling.

I’m wondering if Karen the rabbit hunter has even been inside a HF? Or how many ranches he has ever been on, or if he even knows any ranching families. I’m guessing not, just going by his complete lack of knowledge. Just another suburban dwelling citiot who is an expert on ranching.

High fence shooters are the scum of the Earth.

Fair chase hunters are elitists and think they are entitled to my deer.

am not

are too!

AM NOT!

Fair chase hunters are elitists and think they are entitled to my deer.


am not
are too!
AM NOT![/quote]

ARE TOO!

ARE TOO![/quote]
....and so on and so forth.

here comes Sybil

....and so on and so forth.[/quote]

Bro, your supposed to log out & log into your alternate ego, back & forth, before you argue with yourself.

The designated hitter rule ruined baseball.

I bet that if someone offered Karen the rabbit hunter a spot to hunt deer on a nice HF ranch, he wouldn’t be quite so picky all of a sudden.

Sonnenschein, here's your opportunity -

....and so on and so forth.[/quote]
Huntnfly certainly sees both sides of the issue.

You think they are really going to start the season next month?

Hud and max, together at last.

If you don't care about what anti-hunters think, well, me neither. If you don't care what "non-hunters" think, you should. Because in the end, non-hunters decide if you can hunt at all.

With the way things have been going lately, I'd say it's pretty unlikely. But who knows at this point.

LoL. No they don’t, Karen.

I put up a HF because, after 10 years of hunting the place, I tired of never seeing a buck over 1.5 yo, and the place being over grazed.

The neighbors shot every buck they saw and didn't want to shoot does. So the buck to doe ratio what way out of whack and the habitat was suffering. Similar to many areas in Texas.

Now, the deer population is down, the flora and fauna, are in better shape. Soil erosion is decreased There are more quail, more doves, and other wildlife.

Hunting is actually "harder" because you see fewer deer, but the ones you see are healthy and there actually mature bucks around.

If you think it's hunting in a pen, you ain't been there.

at least he's using a smaller shovel

Sweet. Break out the Natty Light & Rohypnol, & crank up the Luther Vandross.

The sad part is, Karen has been wrong since his 1st post here, & hasn’t learned a thing. If Karen wasn’t so ignorant & obstinate, I had the thought of showing him around my ranch & letting him hunt hogs, just so he could get a different perspective on things & maybe learn something.

I’m glad I didn’t.

How do you figure? Regardless of HF/LF, I don't see how you can argue this point. 10% of people hunt, 5% are anti, and 85% are nonhunters, the majority of which generally support hunting. If that were to change, even a very vocal 10% isn't going to save hunting.

Of course he hasn’t been there. He’s only a hunting expert on the internet.

That’s exactly the reason most HF goes up, folks like Karen who shoot everything they can, if they can get on a lease.

How do you imagine non-hunters dictating who hunts on private land? This is Texas ol son.

Y’all are creating a straw man & giving him super powers, in an effort to justify an absurd position.

Look at grizzly hunting in B.C. or mountain lions in California, or the many states that have banned hunting over bait, or with dogs, etc. Those were done by popular vote by non-hunters. It's not a straw man, it has happened many times. Sure, it's less likely in Texas, but only because those 85% of folks are supportive of hunting. That's the only difference between here and California.

Max, they are talking about Non hunters that VOTE!!!! Surely you understand that could be a threat if non hunters view hunters/hunting in a bad light.
"WE" need to get non hunters to hunt(kids and adults), or at minimum slant their views on hunting and hunters. Recruit, educate, market.
I dont know how your attack of another hunter on this forum is helping anything at all.

Sherpa you are correct but general public also has a hard time with the consumption and killing part of apex predators, thanks Disney. That’s a fundamental difference. Hunters where a huge part of the dog hunting bans, many publicly spoke against hounds and baiting

General public cares about consumption and sustainablitiy, not so much with the fake fair chase agruement. There has never been a fairchase fast food hamburger in the History if the US, yet billions are eaten a year.

Perception about HF is a worse fight between hunters then general public. General public can understand consumption, habitat improvements, herd health when it’s actually explained to them.

Now look back on THF and look at hunters degrading other hunts because they feel the score accomplish of others belittles their own. It’s truely said. So much for eachs own experiences/memories and consumption...

If you want to save hunting, educate hunters and general public on what a score system actually does/accomplishes out side of (trophy hunting), I hate BC but their record reasoning was once legitimate

Yes, 2 commie [censored] that are a long way from TX.

Y’all are scared of things that will never happen here.

Karen is not a hunter. He’s a socialist looking for free handouts.

How do you figure? Regardless of HF/LF, I don't see how you can argue this point. 10% of people hunt, 5% are anti, and 85% are nonhunters, the majority of which generally support hunting. If that were to change, even a very vocal 10% isn't going to save hunting. [/quote]

How do you imagine non-hunters dictating who hunts on private land? This is Texas ol son.

Y’all are creating a straw man & giving him super powers, in an effort to justify an absurd position.
[/quote]

Look at grizzly hunting in B.C. or mountain lions in California, or the many states that have banned hunting over bait, or with dogs, etc. Those were done by popular vote by non-hunters. It's not a straw man, it has happened many times. Sure, it's less likely in Texas, but only because those 85% of folks are supportive of hunting. That's the only difference between here and California. [/quote]


That "only" difference is a GIANT difference compared to Cali.........voting to stop hunting here will be the equivalent of voting to take firearms away.........even if the cesspool cities vote for it it will never be enforced.......Texans will continue to own their guns and hunt with them IMO..................property rights will ALWAYS win the day in this state IMO........

Stop using facts and logic..........not allowed in these threads.........it's all about I want you to hunt like I do, even though I have wounded animals that have suffered that I never found........it was fair chase so it's all good.......

Very good points.

Thank you JJH

End of the day what we do as hunters and land stewards is much more then a trophy pic and score sheet, that is our message, that’s out justification.

We often forget when agrueing amongst ourselves that our deer aren’t migratory, our pronghorn aren’t migratory, our sheep aren’t migratory etc. People want to agrue migratory as dispersal. They aren’t synonymous. We have a much more active and intrusive role as local year round habitat managers with non migratory herds then migratory herd. When you can deter dispersal in, you have a better chance at improving habitat with out having to have a larger mouth eradication program. Once again we as hunters tend to look right past that and focus on size and scores of heads...

Wild Horse Island And Antelope Island have a lot in common, both are high fenced sheep herds by definition.... but wild horse has turned into one of the greatest sheep restocking seed programs in the US. Antelope island will do the same going forward and offer hunts. They share a lot of similarities on a conservation front as most HF’s, sometimes you just got to look at the good and not the puppets on the pulpit

I am not putting down the high fence deal. Even shooting tame deer in pens is alot "nicer" than most modern agricultural methods. And I recognize, most high fence places are not shooting tame deer in pens. Some of you would rather have fun, make jokes, and put words in my mouth. It's about what I expected.

This is not a "straw man" argument that I am trying to make. It is literally happening RIGHT NOW. But so many of you have got your heads in the sand and you think it will never change.

Oe
Thank you BOBO

I’ll ask again. What if they decide they don’t like bow hunting? Are we going to abandon that to save the ship?

What, exactly, do you think is happening right now? Please be specific.

We will never give up guns or hunting in Texas. You might not know that if you ain’t from here.