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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: J.G.]
#7843542
05/18/20 05:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960 |
Could've been a phone call the next day or next week to talk about things some more. There was no discussing or negotiating it with you and I asked. You were already set in what you wanted and said so. There is no discussing things once you are set in your ways. It's the same way you argue on here with people. You're always right and everyone else is wrong, even if you are wrong. There's no point in discussing it further at that point. I moved on.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843545
05/18/20 05:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072
cabosandinh
Veteran Tracker
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I have a 2400 sq ft covered patio for shooting (prone, bench ) 1500 sq ft second deck with view all around
1/2" AR500 targets at 16, 25, 100, 300, 400 yds (target sizes : 4", 6", 8", 12" 18", 5x10' (4), 2x3' (2) ) and a separate spot for 1000+ yds
I wouldn't consider anything less than $200 / day,,,, but that's probably too much for most people
I think that's why good ranges are getting fewer and fewer..... it costs a lot of money to invest in one
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7843582
05/18/20 06:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 41,210 |
Why does it matter what I'm doing and who I'm doing it for? $40 for everyone else, and $200 because of what I'm doing. That sounds right? I'm set up with 2 other ranges that I shoot at, that my business and their business cross paths and compete. Neither care what I do, as long as I pay the range fee. $40 for one and $20 for the other. No problem. There is also private clubs you can join for more money, and they don't care what you are doing on the range and who it's for. With the way things went down, greed was the motive of what I do. I also have a business to run that has bills and insurance payments. Heck, my insurance alone is $11K a year. We all have expenses. We all have to make a living. I make top quality ammo and provide a service very few can do or duplicate. It's a gun range I need to shoot at. Not be charged for more because of what I do at that range. It came to you were causing me more work. More physical work, and more scheduling work. You aren't able to help. so a higher fee was the only way. And like I said, your words "name the price and I'll pay it". Well, I did, and anger followed. So, that was a B.S. statement. And again, bet it wouldn't ended up less money than the annual fee that was YOUR idea. Good job doing this in front of everyone. Could've been avoided very easily.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: cabosandinh]
#7843585
05/18/20 06:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210 |
I have a 2400 sq ft covered patio for shooting (prone, bench ) 1500 sq ft second deck with view all around
1/2" AR500 targets at 16, 25, 100, 300, 400 yds (target sizes : 4", 6", 8", 12" 18", 5x10' (4), 2x3' (2) ) and a separate spot for 1000+ yds
I wouldn't consider anything less than $200 / day,,,, but that's probably too much for most people
I think that's why good ranges are getting fewer and fewer..... it costs a lot of money to invest in one Exactly. Lots of money and a hell of a lot of work. If I were paid a dollar an hour for all the hours I've put in, lots of things would be paid off.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843586
05/18/20 06:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,678
Txhunter65
Veteran Tracker
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I guess I would view it as personal vs professional use/consumption. If you’re charging people for load development and don’t have a range (again I don’t know if you have your own range) I’d assume there’s a fee built into the price for range use during the development, same for if you were charging additional for dope to 800 yards.
I can see your reasoning and if the range didn’t know why you were there or what you were doing then there wouldn’t be a problem I guess. If you have other ranges that have no problem with it then that’s good. I’m just saying I can also see FiremanJG’s reasoning as well and if I were in either of your situations I would agree with and or understand the additional fee if I didn’t have my own range for the service I’m charging for.
One example that comes to mind is if I were to take tree/bush trimmings or leaves/grass to the city dump I can dump for free. If a landscaper comes to my house and trims my trees he pays a fee to take them to the same dump.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7843587
05/18/20 06:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210 |
Could've been a phone call the next day or next week to talk about things some more. There was no discussing or negotiating it with you and I asked. You were already set in what you wanted and said so. There is no discussing things once you are set in your ways. It's the same way you argue on here with people. You're always right and everyone else is wrong, even if you are wrong. There's no point in discussing it further at that point. I moved on. You buy and build a range on 70 acres, your word and your rules are set in stone, and that's what I would adhere to. Because you would be kind enough to "let me" use it. You'll never understand it living on a lot in the city, you just can't.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843619
05/18/20 06:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258
VarmintSniper30
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258 |
Chad is correct Jason has run off a lot of shooters. I doubt he can hold a tactical match again because he changes the rules to suit him in the middle of the match when he makes a mistake. if you are a friend of his he will bend the rules for you to help you if you're not a friend you're screwed. That is not a fair person. If you are a beginner Jason's is a great place to go. But if you start becoming too knowledgeable and know as much as he does now you are an outkast. Because nobody knows as much as Jason.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7843626
05/18/20 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,045
David Maas
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,045 |
Heck, my insurance alone is $11K a year. Who is on the hook for the liability of a round leaving JG's range, I am guessing it won't be the shooter, especially if they are unsupervised. My view is much like the free classifieds on most forums, they are free to the average member but require commercial vendors to pay a fee to use them. The average guy going to JG's is either trying to improve his shooting or get his rifle dialed in without the nonsense found on the majority of other ranges in Texas, where as you are using it for additional income. FTR: There is no way in hell I would allow anyone to use a range I built on my property unless I knew that person intimately. I can shoot safely out to 300yds at the farm, there are exactly 4 people on this forum I would allow to use it unsupervised.
NRA Endowed Patriot Life Benefactor GOA Life Member TSRA Life Member NSCA Life Member
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: VarmintSniper30]
#7843632
05/18/20 07:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210 |
Chad is correct Jason has run off a lot of shooters. I doubt he can hold a tactical match again because he changes the rules to suit him in the middle of the match when he makes a mistake. if you are a friend of his he will bend the rules for you to help you if you're not a friend you're screwed. That is not a fair person. If you are a beginner Jason's is a great place to go. But if you start becoming too knowledgeable and know as much as he does now you are an outkast. Because nobody knows as much as Jason. Not true.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843648
05/18/20 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,354
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,354 |
It's good to be the King. We all have our domain and for me it's my home and the little square it sets on. I don't read Chad, or Jason's comments for my daily affirmation that I'm good enough, smart enough and that by golly people like me ! (Stuart Smalley). They've both helped me, I've disagreed with both of them recently. One on Hornady Supreformance, the other on the Leupold VX-5HD. They didn't hate on me for it.
I'll close with a quote from that great civil rights spokesman, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along".
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843664
05/18/20 07:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,661
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,661 |
Everybody join in now...'Kum ba ya, My Lord, Kum ba ya'...
Both have helped me, I hope both continue to help me. I am appreciative of their efforts.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#7843665
05/18/20 07:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,572
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,572 |
I'll close with a quote from that great civil rights spokesman, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along".
I like it, but some just don't play well with others.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: J.G.]
#7843681
05/18/20 07:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258
VarmintSniper30
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258 |
Chad is correct Jason has run off a lot of shooters. I doubt he can hold a tactical match again because he changes the rules to suit him in the middle of the match when he makes a mistake. if you are a friend of his he will bend the rules for you to help you if you're not a friend you're screwed. That is not a fair person. If you are a beginner Jason's is a great place to go. But if you start becoming too knowledgeable and know as much as he does now you are an outkast. Because nobody knows as much as Jason. Not true. That is a can of worms you do not want to open
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843698
05/18/20 08:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,758
cbump
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,758 |
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843706
05/18/20 08:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,758
cbump
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843711
05/18/20 08:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,960
ChadTRG42
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Posts: 18,960 |
Let me be clear. There is a difference in being told you will pay certain fees based solely on what you are doing on the range and the greed of wanting a piece of my business (which was made perfectly clear). And those fees being non-negotiable and tied to one rifle per trip for load development that would raise the current price 7 to 10 times higher than what you are currently paying. The other option is discussing it and coming up with a solution that is beneficial for both parties to make money. Option 1 was the only option available and firmly communicated.
When the "friend hat" comes off and there is animosity, and someone tells you this is how it is, it's a take it or leave it business deal. At that point, it's no longer friends discussing a business deal and it's only a business deal. To me, it was a sad deal from someone I knew for a long time.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843729
05/18/20 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,176
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,176 |
There hasn’t been this much excitement here since Bushler was banned.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843744
05/18/20 08:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,777
P_102
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,777 |
VarmintSniper, please give us an example of a rule Jason changed in the middle of a match.
Do not trifle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: KRoyal]
#7843748
05/18/20 08:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 664
mulish
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 664 |
Well damn I really didn’t want to be put in the middle of this. I’d just like to set the record strait on a couple of things.
Jason did text me that I should find a different venue for my 22 matches because he was starting on building the house. He let me know 3-4 weeks before the match. Yes I was bummed out because I had already set the date and started the registration process, but I completely understood because I’m sub contractors don’t want to be down range while a bunch of people they don’t know are shooting parallel to them. I know I probably wouldn’t want to work under those conditions. I reached out to Vesperman Sr and we got the venue taken care of and have since partnered on the new 22LR league.
I have business relationships with both of you and more importantly I consider you both friends and hope you guys get this stuff worked out. To my understanding another large part of the problem was Jason wanted too much money. Which was making it unaffordable for the average guy to go shoot a 22 match. $50 to $60 is too much, and then not getting anything back.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: P_102]
#7843765
05/18/20 08:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258
VarmintSniper30
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 258 |
VarmintSniper, please give us an example of a rule Jason changed in the middle of a match. Last year's tactical match he was going to take a 0 on a stage because he made a mental error and got up and left the tower. He then proceeded to keep asking everybody repeatedly let's have a mulligan stage everybody can redo one stage. After his Non-Stop insistence, people acquiesced so he would quit whining. No one was wanting to redo the stage to accept him. The people not wanting to have a blow up gave him his way. He shot a 10 on the stage. And then one the whole match buy just a couple of points. He would not have done that for anyone else. He has never had a mulligan stage at any of his matches before.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: mulish]
#7843774
05/18/20 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,240
KRoyal
Texoma Legend
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Texoma Legend
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,240 |
Well damn I really didn’t want to be put in the middle of this. I’d just like to set the record strait on a couple of things.
Jason did text me that I should find a different venue for my 22 matches because he was starting on building the house. He let me know 3-4 weeks before the match. Yes I was bummed out because I had already set the date and started the registration process, but I completely understood because I’m sub contractors don’t want to be down range while a bunch of people they don’t know are shooting parallel to them. I know I probably wouldn’t want to work under those conditions. I reached out to Vesperman Sr and we got the venue taken care of and have since partnered on the new 22LR league.
I have business relationships with both of you and more importantly I consider you both friends and hope you guys get this stuff worked out. To my understanding another large part of the problem was Jason wanted too much money. Which was making it unaffordable for the average guy to go shoot a 22 match. $50 to $60 is too much, and then not getting anything back. I did have a talk with Jason before we partnered on the NTxR about having multiple (6+) matches a year out there, but lowering the price to around $30 to make it a little more affordable. He said it wasn't worth it to him for anything under $50, that was that, and I moved on. His land his range his rules. However, the change in venue was because of the construction of his house.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843777
05/18/20 08:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: 5Redman8]
#7843779
05/18/20 08:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,205
CCBIRDDOGMAN
Bird Herder
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Bird Herder
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,205 |
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: VarmintSniper30]
#7843782
05/18/20 08:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210 |
VarmintSniper, please give us an example of a rule Jason changed in the middle of a match. Last year's tactical match he was going to take a 0 on a stage because he made a mental error and got up and left the tower. He then proceeded to keep asking everybody repeatedly let's have a mulligan stage everybody can redo one stage. After his Non-Stop insistence, people acquiesced so he would quit whining. No one was wanting to redo the stage to accept him. The people not wanting to have a blow up gave him his way. He shot a 10 on the stage. And then one the whole match buy just a couple of points. He would not have done that for anyone else. He has never had a mulligan stage at any of his matches before. Yup. Not true. Mulligan wasn't my idea. I wasn't going to shoot the match. Pretty much everyone told me to. And, we had a disagreement in the past, we talked about it, solved it, you came and shot. Everyone had a good time, we shook hands when you left. And this is the first I'm hearing you had a SECOND problem. Didn't call or text, just brought it up to me for the first time in an open forum. That's called chickenchit. When you grow up you'll realize that. What the hell is wrong with you people? So much for me trying to share my place for people to have fun, and taking all the risk doing it. Any future match I have will be an invitational.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: $135 for ONE Day of Public Range Shooting.....CRAZY
[Re: KRoyal]
#7843795
05/18/20 08:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,210 |
Well damn I really didn’t want to be put in the middle of this. I’d just like to set the record strait on a couple of things.
Jason did text me that I should find a different venue for my 22 matches because he was starting on building the house. He let me know 3-4 weeks before the match. Yes I was bummed out because I had already set the date and started the registration process, but I completely understood because I’m sub contractors don’t want to be down range while a bunch of people they don’t know are shooting parallel to them. I know I probably wouldn’t want to work under those conditions. I reached out to Vesperman Sr and we got the venue taken care of and have since partnered on the new 22LR league.
I have business relationships with both of you and more importantly I consider you both friends and hope you guys get this stuff worked out. To my understanding another large part of the problem was Jason wanted too much money. Which was making it unaffordable for the average guy to go shoot a 22 match. $50 to $60 is too much, and then not getting anything back. I did have a talk with Jason before we partnered on the NTxR about having multiple (6+) matches a year out there, but lowering the price to around $30 to make it a little more affordable. He said it wasn't worth it to him for anything under $50, that was that, and I moved on. His land his range his rules. However, the change in venue was because of the construction of his house. So look at it this way. 70 acres I worked for decades to get. Turned raw cow pasture into a place with a range, berms every 100 out to 800. Built fence, built a driveway, ran electical, built a 40'x60' shop, and now building a house. Would anyone here risk all they have to allow people to shoot rifles on their place? Someone gets hurt or killed, I get sued and lose 30 years of work and hundreds of thousands of dollars. All you whiners can kiss my azz, and never darken my entryway again. (Not you Kyle)
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