My advice to the ranchers, check out your tenants, all tenants are not equal.

No doo doo.

Here's a repeat of a thread I started. Folks who have said they believe you can't own deer, please read below. And lets get past that bump.



Here is the law stating that you absolutely can own deer in Texas.


http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=31&pt=2&ch=65&rl=602

For your convenience, here is the actual wording:

Texas Administrative Code

Next Rule>>
TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 65 WILDLIFE
SUBCHAPTER T DEER BREEDER PERMITS
RULE §65.602 Permit Requirement and Permit Privileges; General Provisions
(a) Except as provided in this chapter, no person may possess a live deer in this state unless that person possesses a valid permit issued by the department under the provisions of Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapter 43, Subchapters C, E, L, or R.
(b) Except as otherwise provided by this subchapter, a person who possesses a valid deer breeder's permit may:
(1) engage in the business of breeding legally possessed breeder deer within the facility for which the permit was issued;
(2) purchase or otherwise lawfully take possession of breeder deer lawfully possessed by another deer breeder;
(3) sell or transfer breeder deer that are in the legal possession of the permittee;
(4) release breeder deer from a permitted facility into the wild as provided in this subchapter;
(5) recapture lawfully possessed breeder deer that have been marked in accordance with Parks and Wildlife Code, §43.3561 that have escaped from a permitted facility;
(6) temporarily relocate and hold breeder deer in accordance with the applicable provisions of §65.610 of this title (relating to Transfer of Deer); and
(7) temporarily relocate and recapture buck breeder deer under the provisions of Subchapter D of this chapter (relating to Deer Management Permit).
(c) Unless specifically provided otherwise in this subchapter or the conditions of permit, all permit applications, permit renewals, notifications, reporting, and recordkeeping required by this subchapter shall be submitted electronically via the department's Internet-based deer breeder application.

It's unethical to shoot a deer in a pen, put its head on the wall, and say you "hunted" it.

Obviously those that believe in due process got out of the business

I remembered this from a few years past. Sound familiar?
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2013-07-11/news/the-new-hornographers/full/

I don't get you guys. If you are a deer breeder you know: 1)the rules and 2)the range of penalties for breaking the rules. If you don't like them either follow the rules or don't be a deer breeder. It ain't hard.

I knew y'all loved the pens, but I didn't realize you love them so much that the response is to whine for one who represents the worst of the industry.

This is all very revealing to me......

As long as you have people willing to pay for bragging rights, then you will have people willing to supply those bragging rights at whatever cost!
Texas trophy hunting at it's finest!

Maybe the breeders wipe out the Texas deer population and we get back to the days like 50's and 60's where people hunted just for the sport and just being with family and friends and didn't worry much about horns. The average guy could hunt again on cheap leases. Might not be a bad thing, huh?

I'm sorry this has happened to you and your ranch. I will keep you in my prayers!

A-freakin'-men.

After reading the article it becomes quite clear. The ranch had a deer breeding program that fell out of good standing. As a result TPWD pulled their permits. The breeders association dropped them due to unethical behavior. Then suddenly the deer breeding operation remains on site but is "leased" to someone else. Even under "new management" they failed to meet their requirements for permitting. Almost sounds like a brother-in-law deal to me.

Anyway, like it or not TPWD has the regulatory authority over deer, regardless of who or what owns or possesses them, or for whatever purpose. If TPWD wasn't vigilant in such matters what could happen? Let's say some yahoo with deep pockets and a little bit of land decided to breed deer and imported a bunch of sickly, mongoloid deer and then released them, unleashing all sorts of havoc on the wild population? Everyone would be screaming, "why didn't TPWD do something to prevent this".

If these people want to play the game then they need to follow the rules. Just because you're rich doesn't mean you get to change the rules and do your own thing. Sorry it happened but they need to follow the rules. All deer breeders should know and follow the rules.

obama is going to get eric holder right on this.

I heard he already has Holder working the case, they are shipping the back straps to the Whitehouse.

I disagree they need to send the brains to the White House. Oh wait Washington would still be brain dead. Never mind send the rump.

Mike, I have been keeping on eye on this news story, and that news article was posted way before Lonesome Bull Ranch's statement. He was trying to clarify that they did not have anything to do with that breeder. As far as the Breeder's Association dropping them, that was about 10 years ago.

The Game Warden's are giving out a lot of statements on the newspapers, saying words like "euthanized" and "confiscated" when the public isn't even aware that the deer were shot, and the GWs are even posting on local news facebook sites with their personal Face Book accounts, so I think we should let the owner give his side.

On another note, I like the way TPWD has not even released the Deer Breeders identity, when it is easily looked up as Scott Brady Whitetails.

I have hunted at Lonesome Bull and had a great experience. They do not deserve all of the bashing they get on this forum.

Interesting read.

I had to take an Ibex to the vet today. We got to talking about deer breeding. He like others says there is a big turf war between TPWS and TAHC on are captive deer owned by the state or are they livestock.

lol doo doo

I don't understand why they wouldn't be considered livestock by now... every one of them should be ear tagged and tattooed that are kept in breeding facility's and declared livestock... because the level we are at today with the facility's and number of small HF ranches that's all they are is livestock.. These giant breeder deer are now the deer version of the American Quarter Horse and other man made livestock brought on by selective breeding

Yep, well said Nav.

They're more along the lines of Belgium Blue cattle than they are quarter horses.

Crazy...

1.) Their permits were pulled for a reason. TPWD isn't out to get them. They did this to themselves.

2.) They thought they could get around the law and "lease" the program out to a third-party even though it seems Fred Rich was still very much involved.

3.) Fred Rich is apparently a criminal. If you are going to invest a great deal of money into something, why would you choose a criminal to head up the whole operation? There are plenty of wildlife and fisheries guys fresh out of college and, even better, lots of retired game wardens that are well connected and experienced that would love to run a good breeding operation.

This whole thing stinks. I think TPWD was justified and Lonesome Bull got what they deserved. I have known countless friends who own very similar, and much larger, operations and have never had one problem and TPWD does them a lot more good than harm.

Think it's about time that lonesome bull finds a new pasture. Oklahoma maybe? Arkansas isn't too far either...

TPWD didn't feel they were getting the correct level of groveling and begging desired, send in the storm troopers......"respect my authoritie !!" "now what we have here is a complete disrespect for the law" "all hail Caesar" "see this badge ? I can do whatever I want to...."