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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: nsmike]
#5126800
05/25/14 05:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Texas Administrative Code TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT CHAPTER 65 WILDLIFE SUBCHAPTER T DEER BREEDER PERMITS RULE §65.601 Definitions If it's controlled under the wildlife code it's legally wildlife! even if the law allows possession. Link to the applicable law. Just because a misnomer is used by the state to describe deer in a pen, it doesn't change the fact of what they are. The ARE owned by the breeder. They ARE then his personal property. They ARE then better described by the term "livestock" than "wildlife". When you're dealing with state employees you're not dealing with the best and the brightest. Because they can't categorize it correctly, doesn't change the facts. But yes, this is part of what needs to change. The state needs to recognize that when they allowed breeders to own deer, they effectively made them livestock. And let the TAHC under the Ag Commission manage breeder deer as livestock.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5126832
05/25/14 06:25 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,400
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: May 2012
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Texas Administrative Code TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT CHAPTER 65 WILDLIFE SUBCHAPTER T DEER BREEDER PERMITS RULE §65.601 Definitions If it's controlled under the wildlife code it's legally wildlife! even if the law allows possession. Link to the applicable law. Just because a misnomer is used by the state to describe deer in a pen, it doesn't change the fact of what they are. The ARE owned by the breeder. They ARE then his personal property. They ARE then better described by the term "livestock" than "wildlife". When you're dealing with state employees you're not dealing with the best and the brightest. Because they can't categorize it correctly, doesn't change the facts. But yes, this is part of what needs to change. The state needs to recognize that when they allowed breeders to own deer, they effectively made them livestock. And let the TAHC under the Ag Commission manage breeder deer as livestock. That may be what you want but the political reality is that it's not going to happen! Legally captive WT and MD are wildlife possessed by permit.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5126920
05/25/14 07:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,252
TXHOGSLAYER
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Who said this: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Einstein
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: TXHOGSLAYER]
#5127035
05/25/14 09:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Who said this: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Einstein You get the prize! And NOWHERE in the history of this planet is that better illustrated than the global warming lie and the CWD lie. Truth has taken some serious hit's lately.
Last edited by therancher; 05/25/14 09:45 PM.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: blackcoal]
#5127095
05/25/14 10:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,500
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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Not taking sides but my instincts tell me there is more to the story as there usually is
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: tlk]
#5127164
05/25/14 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Not taking sides but my instincts tell me there is more to the story as there usually is Agreed. We don't know the details on the ranch side. But we know for a fact exactly what the state did. And no way was that justified.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5127185
05/25/14 11:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,561
Simple Searcher
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Not taking sides but my instincts tell me there is more to the story as there usually is Agreed. We don't know the details on the ranch side. But we know for a fact exactly what the state did. And no way was that justified. I sure hope there is more to it. If Game Wardens show up like a "swat team" make me wonder what "was not up to code on certain regulations" means, pretty vague.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127197
05/26/14 12:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
So many questions could/need be asked..... not a lot of info in any statements from anyone that we have seen so far.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: stxranchman]
#5127311
05/26/14 01:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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So many questions could/need be asked..... not a lot of info in any statements from anyone that we have seen so far. Best response so far. 
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: dogcatcher]
#5127348
05/26/14 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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On the state side I have all I need to know. It's established fact that they came in with shooters and a chopper and killed over 200 deer. Because of a paperwork issue.
By their OWN admission "to verify there was no CWD".
Which is a giant crock of steaming brown stuff. Because by their own rules they don't have to kill them all.
There's no breeding "crime" worth coming in and destroying ALL of a man's livestock. Unless you can prove that there's unquestionable proof that there is a real and specific threat to the environment and other animals.
And anyone with a brain that's paying attention knows that just ain't so.
Last edited by therancher; 05/26/14 02:17 AM.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127403
05/26/14 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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From the TP&W site Unfortunately, there is no live-animal test to detect CWD.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: dogcatcher]
#5127433
05/26/14 03:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,200 |
From the TP&W site Unfortunately, there is no live-animal test to detect CWD. First, CWD is no threat. In all the states that have CWD, there is no statistically significant effect on deer populations or harvest. Second, there has never been a case of CWD in a white tail in Texas. We have more breeders than any other state, so it stands to reason that CWD doesn't fare too well here. Third, and most important, TPWD has another option. They, by their own rule, can sample 10% of the herd and then monitor for symptoms. So, no, they didn't have to kill the entire herd. Period. They WANTED to.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5127441
05/26/14 03:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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From the TP&W site Unfortunately, there is no live-animal test to detect CWD. First, CWD is no threat. In all the states that have CWD, there is no statistically significant effect on deer populations or harvest. Second, there has never been a case of CWD in a white tail in Texas. We have more breeders than any other state, so it stands to reason that CWD doesn't fare too well here. Third, and most important, TPWD has another option. They, by their own rule, can sample 10% of the herd and then monitor for symptoms. So, no, they didn't have to kill the entire herd. Period. They WANTED to. Where did you get your Doctorate in wildlife biology?
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: dogcatcher]
#5127457
05/26/14 04:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,200 |
From the TP&W site Unfortunately, there is no live-animal test to detect CWD. First, CWD is no threat. In all the states that have CWD, there is no statistically significant effect on deer populations or harvest. Second, there has never been a case of CWD in a white tail in Texas. We have more breeders than any other state, so it stands to reason that CWD doesn't fare too well here. Third, and most important, TPWD has another option. They, by their own rule, can sample 10% of the herd and then monitor for symptoms. So, no, they didn't have to kill the entire herd. Period. They WANTED to. Where did you get your Doctorate in wildlife biology? Biomedical science and 30 years of research experience in the private sector. And you really don't even need a degree to understand what I posted. Just read the info.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127495
05/26/14 04:45 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,481
TurkeyHunter
determined
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determined
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 21,481 |
Case will certainly be interesting to read about in terms of facts if it ever comes to court.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127502
05/26/14 05:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,271
LuckyHunter
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,271 |
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127597
05/26/14 12:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5127658
05/26/14 01:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,203
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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Lots of oil well money down south nowdays, and folks with some pretty deep pockets. I look at this as just the tip of the iceburg.
Thursday at 12:45 PM #33 Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5127734
05/26/14 02:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,200 |
Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. Bundy? Apples and watermelons. These folks owned both the land and the deer. And as you know, I've never argued that their actions at this ranch are in need of or worthy of my defense. What does deserve my defense, is personal property rights, the individual's rights against the state using the CWD lie to "justify" the heavy handedness of destroying over 200 deer (worth God knows how much) over a paperwork violation. A question, is it "unethical" for a rancher to slaughter his prize bull? Now THAT'S apples to apples. FWIW, exactly what kind of "attorney" are you? I thought attorney's believe even murderers deserve a defense?
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5128282
05/26/14 08:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. Bundy? Apples and watermelons. These folks owned both the land and the deer. And as you know, I've never argued that their actions at this ranch are in need of or worthy of my defense. What does deserve my defense, is personal property rights, the individual's rights against the state using the CWD lie to "justify" the heavy handedness of destroying over 200 deer (worth God knows how much) over a paperwork violation. A question, is it "unethical" for a rancher to slaughter his prize bull? Now THAT'S apples to apples. FWIW, exactly what kind of "attorney" are you? I thought attorney's believe even murderers deserve a defense? They ought to send you a retainer fee.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: therancher]
#5128321
05/26/14 08:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,928
TexFlip
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Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. These folks owned both the land and the deer. I believe the land was leased to the breeder and the deer belong to the state. Other than that, that's a pretty accurate assessment.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: lonesomebullranch]
#5128425
05/26/14 09:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,400
Play Maker
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,400 |
Where is the due process?
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: TexFlip]
#5128454
05/26/14 09:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200 |
Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. These folks owned both the land and the deer. I believe the land was leased to the breeder and the deer belong to the state. Other than that, that's a pretty accurate assessment. My breeders tell me that they own the deer in their pens. As long as they stay in the pens and no wild deer are introduced. I believe them. Because parks and wildlife people have told me the same thing.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#5128459
05/26/14 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,200 |
Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. Bundy? Apples and watermelons. These folks owned both the land and the deer. And as you know, I've never argued that their actions at this ranch are in need of or worthy of my defense. What does deserve my defense, is personal property rights, the individual's rights against the state using the CWD lie to "justify" the heavy handedness of destroying over 200 deer (worth God knows how much) over a paperwork violation. A question, is it "unethical" for a rancher to slaughter his prize bull? Now THAT'S apples to apples. FWIW, exactly what kind of "attorney" are you? I thought attorney's believe even murderers deserve a defense? They ought to send you a retainer fee. You could at least answer the ethics question. 
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Please Read Statement from owner of Lonesome Bull Ranch
[Re: TexFlip]
#5128467
05/26/14 09:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,189
don k
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Sounds like stand up folks we should be rallying around. Just like Bundy. These folks owned both the land and the deer. I believe the land was leased to the breeder and the deer belong to the state. Other than that, that's a pretty accurate assessment. The deer supposedly are owned by the state. The person bought the deer for X amount. So you own something and don't have to buy it you let someone else buy it? Then you kill it yet you don't have to pay the person that originally bought them? I want a deal like that.
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