If you think you will have ample opportunities to kill a mature buck in the woods I hunt you are sadly mistaken. It's hard for an adult to kill one and pretty much impossible for a kid to. Of course, you don't hunt here so you wouldn't know that.

Sure he is and that's great!But that looks like Central Texas-it's a whole different ball game out there.

No I just was born and raised there-but we've been through all that. Try to get them changed for you that's fine. But leave them alone where I'm at. In other words,if you anti-AR guys want to talk about your own counties-go ahead. If you talk about an overall repeal you're in for alot of opposition....

How so? Because there aren't bigger ones there? Here's a picture I took of one the same trip.

I offer up a plan that would still help the trophy hunters grow their trophies and allow the kids and seniors to shoot smaller ones if they want to and you say no thanks. You are a very selfish person.

If you don't know the difference in population and management dynamics from central Texas vs. east TX no meaningful discussion can be had.

Well at least we agree on one thing... no meaningful conversation can be had between us...lol

You want to go back inch by inch to a "blast it all" system and you call me selfish? My kids are prospering, not suffering, due to ARs. I'm done taking your bait-it just sounds like you need to find a better place to hunt to me. I happen to know several within 5 miles of you where mature bucks are not that hard to come by.

You have a screw loose dude, seriously. You don't even know where I hunt but you know places within 5 miles of me...lol. My plan would not change anything you are doing and you are too dense to see that.

Don't stop AR's. I've hunted the same place for more than 12 years. We didn't have the AR in place at first and didn't see many big deer on the small places. I got to hunt a 1500 acre ranch just a few miles away and there were nice deer because no one had access to hunt for 10 years. I was the first to hunt the place and managed to get a 160 class 10 point on my second hunt. My father got a 150 11 point and my brother got a 135 8 point. This is only 8 miles from our original hunting grounds. The difference is the farmland we hunted was surounded by other un hunted farmland. Our area was pressured. Since the AR's went into effect I bought a place 11 miles from this big ranch and I am seeing deer that we would not have seen without the AR's in place. Big deer take time, patience and lots of cooperation. Cooperation being key.

judging by your location description, you're right behind him...therefore he does know where you're at

I was born and raised 5 miles from Rusk county. My grandparents lived there all their lives. I know it well. My friends still hunt Rusk county and kill bruisers there year in and year out. ARs have not hurt Rusk county. If it is "hard to kill" a mature buck where you are hunting in Rusk county then you are either not hunting the right place or don't know how to manage/hunt the place you are on. I will give Bowslayer the benefit of the doubt and assume the former.

But if I am wrong and there is a groundswell of Rusk county hunters who want ARs repealed there let them have at it. I have not seen such a groundswell and am not holding my breath...

Like I said, you don't live nor hunt here. You have "friends" that kill big ones every year.. what's your point? Are you telling me that you can bring a kid to my lease and kill a mature buck any time you want to? Can you bring a kid to my lease let him kill 1 mature buck during the entire season? You have no idea so I'm not sure why you insist on arguing a subject that you know nothing about. I said in my previous post that there are pockets of deer in the County and if you're in one then great. IF you're not then the current bag limits are wiping out the herd that's there.

The AR's do not affect me in any way other than my kid. I have no desire to shoot a young buck and I don't. You have a ME ME ME ME attitude and have no idea what you're talking about. Do you have any idea how large Rusk County is? Are all properties in Rusk County the same as far as deer numbers? I think you'll agree that the answer is NO. So why are you arguing what ARs have or have not done to where I hunt. I'll give you $1000.00 if you can guess within 25 miles of where I hunt.

Here's the FACTS, not what I heard from a friend of a friend about a County I don't hunt in.

Before AR's we had deer. Killed a few big ones here and there and the kids shot some small ones. It was unusual to sit in the stand and not see deer. We always had fun and made memories no matter the size of the antlers killed.

Post AR's... It's unusual to sit in the stand and see deer. I have not shot a buck nor has my son since they were put in place on this property. It has gone from a 1 buck County to 2 bucks and 2 does.

Why don't you just admit that it is very possible that AR's have done harm and not good where I hunt? Because you don't care about where I hunt. You care about where you hunt and just like to argue about things you don't know about. I never said they don't work where you hunt but you insist they do work where I hunt. Why is that?


PS I thought you were done taking my bait? Why don't you move on to something you can discuss with a little knowledge of the subject. Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

I don't live in an AR County. But what I have seen around here is narrow antlered deer produce more of the same. If you could start off with only bucks that were proven to be able to produce offspring that in 3 years would be over the AR limit it would be a good thing. That would be in the perfect world. What you have now is mature narrow antlered bucks becoming the dominate bucks in a area. What they need to do for about 4 years is only 13" or less bucks with 6 or more points could be taken. Get them out of the gene pool.

no disrespect don, but i have read about <13" mature bucks on here before and i know they exist, but can we get some pics of these deer? not saying it doesnt happen and i havent hunted all over texas but i find it hard to believe that the majority of MATURE bucks in a given area would be <13".

I don't think he's saying the majority of mature bucks are less than 13" but when you're not allowed to shoot them and they breed until a ripe old age it will eventually get to that point. Here's a East Texas brush buck that I shot pre-ARs. 6.5 years old and 9.5 inch inside spread. He would now be protected while the other deer with better genetics are fair game.

I am not saying the majority, though it may be in a certain area. I know here for a number of years we had a good number of bucks that had no brow tines. Keep taking them out and now it is very seldom you see one. Last year I had an 8 point narrow antlered buck that I wanted taken. He never was. This year he looks heavier horned but still narrow. I also have a 6 point that was around 14" last year I wanted taken. he also made it through the season. This year he is still a 6 point at about 16". I am sure he breed some does and will probably pass the 6 point gene along. What I am saying it is a shame that with ARs you cannot legally cull deer that you know will not benefit the herd.

wow, that is unbelievably narrow lol.

Yeah, his grandsons come to my feeder and stick their tongues out at me.

I don't believe that's the case, bc of the old belief of once a spike always a spike. To hold out on a "better" deer one has to know there are actually better deer in the area (thank you game cams..and the post 2000 models that can store thousands of pics..not 36 before you gave to go get film developed) The trend of folks trying to kill the best buck their property/lease could produce in a given year has been around for a while. Then you have a new culture in hunting, can't deny it, there's several threads about how current hunting shows are bad and it's a reflection of that new culture. Then you have qdma pushing sex ratio and doe thinning with folks buying in (this is after TPW let the ratio get WAY off in a bunch of pineywood counties from lack of a season for them...could lower doe numbers cause more bucks to be visible? There's also the topic of price point of leases that weed out folks.... There's just a lot of variable involved and IMHO the shift started pre-ARs.

Been on a place like that and still go hunt it yearly as a guest. Majority of bucks 3-6 are going to be <13 inside. I've shot 2 bucks off the place, one 4, the other 5..one was a "cull" at 9"..one was a "mgmt" buck that went 127 @ 10.5" inside as an 8pt.

would I say that's normal..nope, but you'll have pockets of ticked off people because of county-wide blanket rules.

here's a typical deer for there...guy got fined for it b/c it was either 12.5 or 12.75, and was his 3rd buck, so club rule was it needed to be over 13".



'nother one... (weighed over 200#)..not the best of pic etiquette

As I have said I take those at their word that ARs may not work well in some areas. Unfortunately none of us have precise facts and figures to present.

Personally, I fail to see how a rule that has the simple effect of letting young bucks get a little age on them could be anything but a positive.

And ARs do have this: They have been in place in some counties for a decade or more and many other areas for several years (5+). There are hundreds of thousands of hunters in the areas where they have been put in place. They are overwhelmingly supported in those areas. Texas deer hunters are not a bunch of wallflowers-if ARs were having a devastating or negative effect on deer hunting they would make it known in no uncertain terms. This has not happened.

This alone speaks volumes about their efficacy. They work and they are here to stay.

A lot of them it doesn't apply to, they realize it's flawed and switch over to MLD, which is the standard response on here. A lot of counties were 1 buck, now 2 buck...and some 2 (of any kind) now 13" & a spike, which are easy finds. This is of course after the long spell screw up over doe harvest and herd structure. Some folks would like to do things right and not have to go back to fix those state imposed screw ups. If their blanket mgmt worked, I'd bet your big neighbor wouldn't be sitting around 1:8.