That's good.

All u PRO ar guys say the same thing too like how all the young bucks are getting killed without ar rules! THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS NOW YOU CAN KILL 2 YOUNG BUCKS AND 2 MORE DOES THAN YOU COULD KILL BEFORE AR! YALL PRO AR GUYS NEED TO STICK TO YOUR STORY. Nogales your worst case scenario IS happening here.

so you are talking about money from out of staters, ok.

They don't care bro. They don't hunt here so why would they?

Not just out of staters. Everybody. Which is cheaper, a lease in the hill country or deep south texas? Why is deep south texas more expensive? Hmmmmm.... antler size might play into that. Bigger bucks equals more hunters equals more money spent on anything to do with hunting.

hoytman, have you talked to your neighbors about starting a management plan/co-op? i know its kind of a "confrontational" topic and people hate talking to their neighbors about stuff like that, but a lot of times thats all it takes.

true, kind of getting off track, i come from a small town and a family in small business that is all but dead, they would welcome a flock of hunters every year spending money in their town. TPW doesnt get any of that.

So you are saying TPW is using AR's to create revenue, you are saying the way to create revenue is to create bigger bucks...so in theory, you are saying that TPW is creating bigger bucks to create more revenue by using AR's.

Which side of the argument are you on?

how far is hopkins county from hunt county? i feed anywhere from 10-20 deer a day on the very small place that i hunt. the few guys that i know around me are all happy with the AR's, we have nice bucks to choose from and even though one or two may take a spike for meat, they dont tag out. my problem is that i need a longer doe season, the 4 days in november arent enough.

Are you telling me there's no correlation to having Counties with larger antlered bucks and money? Bigger antlers = more money. It has nothing to do with balancing the age of the bucks, it's about the antler size and nothing else. [/quote]

so you are talking about money from out of staters, ok. [/quote]

Not just out of staters. Everybody. Which is cheaper, a lease in the hill country or deep south texas? Why is deep south texas more expensive? Hmmmmm.... antler size might play into that. Bigger bucks equals more hunters equals more money spent on anything to do with hunting. [/quote]

So you are saying TPW is using AR's to create revenue, you are saying the way to create revenue is to create bigger bucks...so in theory, you are saying that TPW is creating bigger bucks to create more revenue by using AR's.

Which side of the argument are you on? [/quote]

I forgot which side I'm on. Oh yeah, I'm against them.

jshouse i actually have talked to 3 out of 4 neighbors and they didnt care at all. They liked being able to kill there limit if they wanted to. The only way i can see any hope is for TPW to lower the limit back down to 1 buck and maybe 1 doe on thanksgiving weekend.

I have to go back to work now, lunch hour is over. Love'em or hate'em they are in place. I just wish they would take another public vote on them since they have been in place for a few years. I have a feeling they would not pass again in the County I hunt in unless they did a secret vote.

I'm still trying to figure out why the spike tags aren't getting used despite the old theory of anything with horns gets shot...

"Could you not do the exact same thing before ARs?" Nope… Not in a one buck county. There is no way the results would have been the same without AR’s.

I still don't follow how ARs play a role in your culling? It's really quite simple... We allow our bucks to mature before we even consider shooting them. Before AR's we could shoot ANY (one) buck we wanted any size. We would not shoot trash bucks in hopes that a trophy buck would show. Those trash bucks would get a pass and they would be the bucks that would breed our does. Now that AR's are in place we are able to control our deer herd.

And for the record... I have 5 paid hunters on my lease. Each hunter is allowed 4 deer. 2-bucks, 2-does. If they are hunting with a child, and if that child takes a deer it comes off the paid hunter’s quota.
Last year there were 8 deer total shot. 4 does, 4 bucks 3-8's and one spike.

It's really quite simple... We allow our bucks to mature before we even consider shooting them. Before AR's we could shoot ANY (one) buck we wanted any size. We would not shoot trash bucks in hopes that a trophy buck would show. Those trash bucks would get a pass and they would be the bucks that would breed our does. Now that AR's are in place we are able to control our deer herd.

And for the record... I have 5 paid hunters on my lease. Each hunter is allowed 4 deer. 2-bucks, 2-does. If they are hunting with a child, and if that child takes a deer it comes off the paid hunter’s quota.
Last year there were 8 deer total shot. 4 does, 4 bucks 3-8's and one spike.




I understand that you allow your bucks to mature before shooting them, great. Could you not do that before ARs were in place? The only difference is the added spike tag and if you're not shooting yearlings that would very rarely come into play. I think you are confusing a change in your lease rules with the AR regulations. I still don't get how AR's give you any more ability to control your herd than you had before them. Last year you shot a spike and your boy shot a big one. Could have done the exact same thing prior to AR's. You say out of 5 members there were 4 bucks taken... again you can do the same thing without AR's. You said before you would not shoot trash bucks in hopes of a trophy showing up. You still have the same number of branched antlered buck tags you had before AR's. You said you let the kids shoot the trash bucks and they could have done the same thing before ARs. You are giving credit to AR's for your own personal management practices when in fact they play no role in what you're doing. That's all I'm saying.

So you are saying TPW is using AR's to create revenue, you are saying the way to create revenue is to create bigger bucks...so in theory, you are saying that TPW is creating bigger bucks to create more revenue by using AR's.

Which side of the argument are you on? [/quote]




Now back to this..

I'm all for creating more revenue through the growing of bigger bucks. But TP&W's plan for doing this in my County is destroying the deer herd and I'm not for that at all. If they had a plan that actually worked without doing harm I would not have a problem with it. Everybody should go find Dan's thread with the video from TP&W if they haven't already watched it. It's pretty amusing to me.

That's easy. Thanks to ARs people know they have a chance at a decent buck so no need to blast a spike now. Simply put, because ARs work. It's a new day where the "gotta shoot the first horn I see" mentality is fading. They are content to shoot a doe instead.

ARs work. Period. Maybe not in every corner of every county. But they work. I see it with my own eyes and, except for the same half-dozen or so on this forum, in everyone else's eyes too. I can honestly say I have not ever talked face to face with a single person who is anti-AR. And I talk to a fair amount of folks. This includes some real rednecks who thought they were Satan himself come to town.

I have talked to some who believe they can manage better than the AR system-so they go MLD3 or whatever the Oct-Feb managed program is called. Again, they are not anti-AR they just think they can do better.

It would still be easier to lower the bag limit and make it 1 buck only. Spike or 13in just not both and 1 doe only

The spike/unbranched antler tag was put in as a sop to the "it's brown it's down" crowd to make ARs a little easier to swallow. I honestly think you could get rid of it/replace it with a doe tag now without much squealing since doe opportunities have/are expanding.

Here's what I would like to see in my County. Maybe you Pro AR guys can chime in and see if you would be ok with it.

1 buck larger than 13"
1 doe
Under 16 and over 65 years of age can shoot one buck of any size

Would that not work?

sounds good.

It all "works" depending on what you are trying to accomplish I guess. You perceive that would expand opportunities for youngsters and old folks. My perception on my place is that,thanks to ARs being in place several years, those goatheads are now bigger so why not take one of them? If you have nicer bucks available for kids/old folks why shoot a goathead?

You still could do the same thing you are doing but the old and young wouldn't have to. No chance of one of them making a mistake. If they want to hunt big ones they still could. If they are just as happy to take a smaller one then why not let them?

I can promise you this. This deer would not meet AR's and my son still tells everybody that will listen about it. He is just as proud of it as anybody could be of a deer.

I have never seen even a kid or an old man opt for a goathead when bigger deer were available-excepting a very little kid who just doesn't know and Daddy can gently say "Let's wait on a little bigger one buddy."

I am all for kids/old folks opportunities. I just believe we can protect our yearling/two year old deer and STILL have ample opportunities for all. The first year I bought my place the biggest buck I saw was a goathead six point. That buck my daughter is holding above has alot of brothers his size and more than a few bigger roaming around now. ARs are the reason.