Let me start by saying not all landowners act like this guy does. I'm just giving y'all a heads up with my experience with him.

Yes I'm sure some will come in here and stroke his ego so they will continue to hunt for free. I hope y'all can see through all of that. This Is My Experience with this Tool. So before anyone pops off we'll nip this in the bud.

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...lem#Post2115772

He comes across as a cool guy letting people come to hunt for free blah blah blah. He even let my son and I check the place out and hunt for "free" the last weekend of quail season 2010 after me buying the guy breakfast.

He starts off by saying that he won't sign a contract that his hand shake is enough. Tells us what he expects blah blah blah. I didn't think too much about this but was still somewhat skeptical. As it turns out we find out why he can't sign a contract.

Paid him the 750 for the lease after negotiating for Sept dove hunting all of October for archery and all of January and February for the quail. We walked around for about an hour and worked the dog a little and left the place with high hopes. Notice in the first thread he started where he said it wasn't about the money. Yeah right

"It's not about the $$$$ I see that alot of guys go on day leases or weekend hunts that are 300 to 500 for the weekend" quote from the thread.

Now before we even got to go back and scout and look for stand placement areas he turns into the flake that he is. I contacted him via phone and he says "who are you"? Really? You can't even remember who someone is after them giving you 750 dollars? Big red flag for me. Then after I refresh his memory he says oh yea did you pay in full and what were the terms? Really? Big red flag #2. Then proceeds to tell me that he lost all his phone numbers. Gave him the benefit of the doubt it happens.

Fast forward to the drought conditions of last year. Before we went down in September I call him to let him know what was going on. He was like oh I lost your number again (RED FLAG #4) but I've paid out this much in protein and corn. While sympathetic we didn't have any feed in the deal as part of us hunting. See the add.

So we go down and scout around in the hot summer and put together stands and somewhat put them in areas that were close to where we wanted to scout.
We didn't hunt at all in september and mind you he still allowing people to come out for dove and who knows what else and hunt even though we paid for all 615ac.

So I had some health issues come up and turns out I would have open heart surgery the second week of archery season. There goes my season. We head down opening weekend for archery to let my son at least get a chance to hunt some before me having surgery. For some odd reason he feels the need to come down to his place for opening weekend. Oh well we thought he would be doing work. We had asked him prior to even putting a single stand out about areas we should put stands being that he new the land better than us. He told us both put them over near his protein feeders. So we did put them on trails leading up to his feed pen.
I tell him and his wife about my pending operation and he states to me and son "Don't worry y'all can have the same deal as this year for next". We said fine.
Opening morning he see a nice buck and tells us about it laying in the middle of an open pasture. I moved a stand near the area he said he saw this buck in hopes to maybe seeing it. I told him where I moved the stand and if he or his wife wanted a shot at the buck we wouldn't shoot it but save for them during the rifle season.
End of the first evening hunt he drives right by both of us while we are hunting WTF is he doing I text my son. Oh well his land whatever.

So he post in another thread about going up on his price and I pm him and he comes back and tells me he'll let me know after Xmas. Okay

Then he goes to another forum and posts this.
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262317
Notice the amount that he's wanting for just the 410ac which BTW is more like 60% pasture and 40% woods. So I pm'd him about whether we still had a deal for next year? Says he is leasing the 405ac for what the add says and that just it. Starts crying how he paid over 3000 for protein and corn blah blah blah. See the greed.
Then this

http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=273521

Notice that the amount has changed to 2000 a gun now and in the same thread he says 3500 for it and that it was a miss print. Really? You typed it you idiot. Y'all seeing the pattern yet?

So I ask him in his thread if we still had a place to hunt for 2012 that I still haven't heard back from him. Puts in the post that I had his number and that he had already talked to me about this. I'm out of there now. So I posted in his thread for people to pm me for specifics. He spun off.

Said to come get my tripods that he would leave them at the front gate. I told him that wouldn't be a smart move because if they came up missing he would be springing for some tripods.
This went back and forth until they deleted some of his text that he admitted to his intentions and could care less about my stuff. To proove that they were stolen from his property. Not the brightest bulb in the pack thats for sure. He admitted this on an open forum. I also paid for a truck that he refuses to give me a bill of sale or title for. I've talked to the sheriff in Coleman so they are well aware of this guy.

Just be careful and get a contract or something in writing to protect you and your stuff. Sorry for the long post

Yeah, sounds pretty shady.

At some point you have to take some blame for continuing to transact with this guy though. You just handed him cash for a vehicle he didn't have a title for and wouldn't write a bill of sale on?

I have been burned on a couple leases before. The bottom line is make sure that you have a written contract preferably by a lawyer or yourself. Thats always a red flag to me when I am discussing a lease with a landowner and they say that they do not want to be "tied down" or the do not want to sign a contract. Unless it is a family member or a close friend I won't even hunt on the land without a contract.

Yes live and learn it was just an old POS ranch truck. I just wanted for the motor.

Never again for me

It's reading things like this that really have me scratch my head in disbelief?? What is wrong with people now days! I'd NEVER dream of doing that to someone! The lease I was on last year the land owner bull dozed through the thickest part of the property.. From one side to the next to build a cross fence.. OH, he did this the 2nd week of October.. Really, WTF??

"handshake is enough"...

RUN AWAY ... RUN AWAY...

Sounds like a real D.B.

Douch Bag King

thanks a lot .

It seems I hear more bad stories about leases than good, which is probably just human nature.

Thanks for posting. Leasson learned for folks just looking for a lease.

1. Do some research on who you're dealing with.
2. Detailed signed contract of what can and can't go on at the lease.

I agree with land owners rights, but once money exchanges hands, you need that formal agreement which protects you and the land owner.

I think the most important thing in any deal is to determine what is important to you the most. And if you can't get those things, like right to renew first or no land work prior to opening of and during the season, you need to be prepared to walk away.

Yea, its tough enough to find a place worth leasing, but all anyone needs to do is read a thread like this to some things are just better to pass on.

Guys, one of my old friends that is a rancher/realtor in So. Texas sold a place to a guy on a down payment in deep So. Texas
w/payments to come..the guy leased it/sold all the deer off and
abandonded it..Bill sued him/he no showed..got a bench warrant &
sent it to San Antonio..guy was selling real estate there..no
results..I got an old Constable buddy of mine to serve the warrant, man was driving a new Sub./had $900 cash in his pocket..
claimed poverty, and said he'd paid to not get served to the local law enforcement..ect..My buddy got no money..and the guys
who paid for a lease are SOL..Beware of SCAMS...Bill figured he
lost about

Agree with this especially once the money changes hands. Good info for folks looking to lease.

Reminds me of an incident several years ago. The guys on the lease kept fussing about the conditions of the roads. They were right but we were in the middle of a real dry summer and it was just too dry to do dozer/grader work. I went ahead and got on the list of the local dirt contractor but ranch work was way down on his guys list because of all the activity in the oil patch. We finally got a little moisture and my dirt man called. Said he could move in on the place Saturday morning. Saturday morning!!! That was openining weekend of deer season. No way!! Sent him on his way. Finally got the work done a couple or months later but had to listen to the complaints about the roads all season. Sometimes you can't win.

Can you pm me his name? I've been around the Coleman area for years.

I sure can pm coming your way.

Wish I had a $1 for every time somebody makes an oral agreement on a deer lease and then complains later when it goes wrong, sounds like the cliche when 2 fools met, you are responsible for your actions, you should have know better, quit your crying, no telling what the other guy says, this is so typical as we will never know what really happned. Goes to show when somebody bashes somebody else on the web they can not repair the damage to there reputation if somebody is just trying to get even because they were stupid and had a oral lease plus tryed to buy a truck without a title, you deserve what you got is my verdict. This is another reason why texas needs a outtiftter law where every lease must be in writing and have a license to lease from the state of texas like other real states do out west, too many wannabees on craigs list, ebay, hunters on a year round lease selling day hunts and on and on, outta be a law!!!

THe last thing we need is more laws telling use how we can hunt. Regarding the OP, most of us on THF appreciate when people post their bad lease experience here. It helps us avoid them. And yes you can still work an oral lease deal in Texas, and they do work. You just have to be trusting and believe a person is honorable until proven otherwise.

Here comes the peanut gallery... thanks for your POV but I don't have anything to gain or an axe to grind just letting good folks know before they deal with people like this. If you can't see thru that sorry. Nobody is crying here just laying out a plain case of greed at it's finest and Welcome to the forum. Great third post you ought to make alot of friends around here.

Where does the landowner get to post his bad hunter experience??

Maybe they should open a forum topic so landowners can rate the huntersLMAO!!!!Whats good for the goose is not good for the gander is it now?? What would your rating be???

He can post it right here. I would love to hear what he has to say. Sounds like a real winner to me, but there are 2 sides to a story.

Why don't you do that. Start one up so we can all add to our experiences. I would not be affraid of any rating believe me.

Oh and we damn sure dont need more Government involved. You must be a Democrat.

@shedhunter

There are plenty of land owners on here and there are plenty of times they call out the hunters also. It is sad that a mans word doesn't mean anything anymore, but isolated incidents doesnt mean that new laws should be created. If you have doubts, get a contract. But with the actions that the OP described, do you really think a contract would have made a difference. And if he didn't honor the contract and acted the same way, would it be worth paying a lawyer and spending the time to fight this guy, or would most people just cut their losses and find another place.

Either way, I appreciate folks bringing these issues to light and warning others.

And if you are so impressed with the "Real" states out west, go hunt them and stay out of the "fake" state of Texas.

Great post take that to heart.