I've seen a lot of people doing duracoating and camo dipping in the classified section. I know a couple have FFL's, but I doubt most have a license.

Do you need a license/FFL to do this? From what I'm reading here, if you don't have an FFL, it is illegal to alter someone else's firearm in any way for profit...

u.s. Departmenot f Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Fireanns and Explosives
Office of the Director
Washington. DC 20226
18 U.S.C. 921(a): DEFINITIONS
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(I)(A): LICENSES REQUIRED
18 U.S.C. 923(a): LICENSES REQUIRED
27 CFR 478.11: DEFINITIONS
27 CFR 478.41(a): LICENSES REQUIRED
Any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or changes
afirearm's appearance, by camouflaging afirearm by painting, dipping, or applying tape,
or by engraving the external surface of a firearm, does not need to be licensed as a
manufacturer under the Gun Control Act. Any person who is licensed as a
dealer/gzlnsmith, and who camouflages or engraves firearms as described in this ruling
does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act. Any person
who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or engraving firearms as described in this
ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, under the Gun Control
Act.
A TF Rut. 2009-1
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (A TF) has received inquiries
from Federally licensed manufacturers and dealers/gunsmiths seeking clarification as to
whether camouflaging firearms, or cutting designs into firearms by engraving, constitute
manufacturing activities that require a manufacturer's license.
Camouflaging refers to a patterned treatment using a variety of different colors that enables
a firearm to blend into a particular outdoor environment. This typically involves painting,
dipping, or applying a tape over the firearm's wood and/or metal parts.
Engraving firearms is a process in which a decorative pattern is placed on the external
metal of a firearm primarily for ornamental purposes. The engraving can be cut by hand or
machine, or pressed into the metal. There are other engraving techniques that cut designs
into firearms, such as checkering or scalloping.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), Title 18, United States Code (V.S.C.), Chapter 44,
provides, in part, that no person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing,
or dealing in firearms until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so
from the Attorney General. A "firearm" is defined by 18 V.S.C. 92 I (a)(3) to include any
weapon ~:including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
-2-
to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, and the frame or receiver of any such
weapon. The term "manufacturer" is defined by 18 V.S.C. 921(a)(IO) and 27 CFR 478.11
as any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for
purposes of sale or distribution. The term "dealer," which includes a gunsmith, is defined
by 18 V.S.C. 921(a)(II) and 27 CFR 478.11 to include any person engaged in the business
of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, or repairing firearms or making or fitting special
barrels, ~;tocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms.
In Revenue Ruling 55-342, ATF's predecessor agency interpreted the meaning of the terms
"manufacturer" and "dealer" for the purpose of firearms licensing under the Federal
Firearms Act, the precursor statute to the GCA. It was determined that a licensed dealer
could assemble firearms from component parts on an individual basis, but could not
engage in the business of assembling firearms from component parts in quantity lots for
purposes of sale or distribution without a manufacturer's license. Since then, ATF has
similarly and consistently interpreted the term "manufacturer" under the GCA to mean any
person who engages in the business of making firearms, by casting, assembly, alteration, or
otherwise, for the purpose of sale or distribution.
Performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging, that primarily adds to or
changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing. Unlike
manufacturing processes that primarily enhance a firearm's durability, camouflaging is
primarily cosmetic. Likewise, external engravings are cosmetic in nature and primarily
affect only the appearance of a firearm.
Held, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to or
changes a firearm's appearance by camouflaging the firearm by painting, dipping, or
applying tape does not need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Held further, any person who engages in an activity or process that primarily adds to
or changes a firearm's appearance by engraving the external surface of the firearm does not
need to be licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Held further, any person who is licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, and
who camouflages or engraves fireanns as described in this ruling does not need to be
licensed as a manufacturer under the Gun Control Act.
Held further, any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or
-3
engraving firearms as described in this ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includes
a gunsmith, under the Gun Control Act.

sounds like only if they do it in camo

That's our government in action for you. It's all right to buy all sorts of camo or other modified parts and it's all right to order a specialized stock from Boyds and use these parts to change your guns appearance by modifying your weapon. But it's against the law for me to buy a can spray paint a camo and apply a pattern on my own gun's existing parts. Pure genius.

Yes, you absolutely need one to do a gun without question.

You could do barrels and stock etc, but nothing that involves the serialized receiver without a license.


Heck even an 01FFL can only do them for their customers. An 01 can't buy an old gun and coat it to resell. Thats manufacturing and they need an 07.

I think it has to do with keeping overnight, a gun that does not belong to you. or something to that effect.

I don't see where it says anything about someone else's gun. They way I read it is that I can't spray paint on my own gun.

This is correct. You have to have a license for this. I have tried to politely warn those on here who are doing this but they don't think they are doing anything wrong. I guess they will have to learn for themselves the hard way. I just hope they don't get in too much trouble. More people than you think monitor these sites.

I've heard rumors that someone in the DFW area got nailed by the ATF for duracoating not too long ago. Not sure if its true or not but thats what I heard.

like dallas S.S. said, anything with serial numbers on it.

You can paint your own rifle pink if you want no problem.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading, but I don't interpret that to say I can't camo my own gun, just not others for money.

Quote:
"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or engraving firearms as described in this ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includesa gunsmith, under the Gun Control Act."

I would interpret "in the business of" to mean doing it for others and being paid.

Isn't there a part of the law that states doing it infrequently as a hobby or for friends is ok?

I think basically as long as you're not doing it for profit, it's ok? I'm not for sure, so I thought I'd ask.

I don't see any problems with working on your own guns--just gets very grey when dealing with other people's guns.

I'd just hate for some kids to get hauled to jail for this and then guns from unwitting "customers" getting seized by the ATF

But if they've been warned, then I guess they've already had their chance...

Never heard of this law but sounds like they want to be able to monitor anyone doing gun work for profit, as a business. Guess that makes sense, more government control...

I have read this letter and do not feel that I am breaking any laws by offering duracoat services to those on the forum. I am not a business, do not intend to be a business and do not portray myself as a business. In many cases I do not even keep the serially controlled portion of the firearm and require the firearm to be disassembled by the owner upon drop off or before drop off since I am not a gunsmith and do will not take that liability. The only ones that I have gotten any flak from about this are those that feel they are losing business because of the "favor" that I am doing for people. I as for a VERY low amount as I would any friend of mine that would as me to do this for them and I barely make anything off of these after everything is considered. I do this as a hobby and something as therapy for myself (ptsd), I will not be doing this for ever nor do I plan on getting into the business of it. I accept trades and barter with people that want to barter for services since it is not about the $$ for me. If need be under the law I could "buy" the firearm from the person and "sell" it back to them if I have to paint a serially controlled part or entire gun. I appreciate those that have shown sincere concern for me by informing me of the possibility of being in violation of this rule but I feel that I am not in violation at this time. Furthermore I have sent an email to the ATF to clarify this further and will update this thread upon response for those that would like to offer this to anyone else in the future.

I figure its like this (not going to try and read ALL the documents out there, doesn't apply to me)
what is posted here is sub-section of rules/regs. peratining to folks who take in other guns for work.

Find the "top-most" section of regs and likely thats where this starts from.

Rebel, anytime you offer services and take in cash, then there is a point at which you legally have to report/charge and file sales tax.
A reason I no longer am involved in Calls or photography.
My wife makes gourds. She has a sales tax use permit and files.

I stand corrected and will address this accordingly. I just got off the phone with the ATF and they stated that receiving payment for any service is considered a "business". The agent also informed me that there is really "nothing to be worried about" in my case unless the firearm turned up at a crime scene and even then its not something that would be "serious" on my end.

I was wrong and I will take the necessary measure to correct this. Thanks to all for the concern.

Glad to hear you are getting that worked out.

This will be address(changes) here on the forum in the near future.

Just remember there are always ways around things and loop holes. I have already found a way to make it work but I just dont want to deal with it, Ill just get my FFL.

Good call. The ATF has too much grey area to play around with. Especially with us being in a border state. More scrutiny on our region.

Edit:

Coating was the original reason we got our FFL as well.

Good idea, would suck for someone to get in alot of trouble.

There was a recent high profile case that was discussed at great length on several gun boards.

A guy from El Paso was making only 600ish a year doing stuff that was considered a dealer.

He got in a world of trouble, tons of legal fees, and even jail time if I remember right. All because he didn't have his FFL. So how little you do it means nothing in the laws eyes, if you charge for it. Its a business, period.

Always wondered why you stopped making calls. Talked about you last night, I have a buddy wanting to start doing some lathe work and I said "There was this guy on the hunting forum that made some awesome calls he sold made out of all kinds of wood. But he just stopped selling them a few years back."