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Hybrid Deer
#2270618
04/26/11 03:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
mattm
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527 |
Anyone have any experience with hybrid deer. Google searches are inconclusive and often leave you with more questions and none of them really answered. I shot a deer this past season that is in dispute. There were SO many whitetail characteristics its not even funny but one side of the rack was forked like a mulie and the other side was a white-tail main-beam all the way. This is really becoming a pain and I was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. This was near the Panhandle area where both herds mix. Most of the websites talk about how frequent this is happening, but the local GW swears it a very rare occurance. I've had to ship the rack to him so I'm not sure what will come of the ordeal.
...as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free...
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: mattm]
#2270638
04/26/11 03:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 54
One Shot Two Kills
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 54 |
Google searches are inconclusive and often leave you with more questions and none of them really answered. This is exactly why I don't use Google anymore; give Bing a shot!
Check out my non-commercial bear hunting website; Bear-Hunting.Org! Which educates hunters on both bear hunting and hunting safety.
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270653
04/26/11 03:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,481
blancobuster
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,481 |
you should not have to munch on popcorn too long bmd, I am sure people will begin chiming in momentarily
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: blancobuster]
#2270655
04/26/11 03:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
you should not have to munch on popcorn too long bmd, I am sure people will begin chiming in momentarily
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#2270662
04/26/11 03:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
I ain't buying the cross  I hunt where the co exist since 1997 ain't seen it yet!
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270713
04/26/11 04:13 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,176
dkershen
Rev Dave
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Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,176 |
http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...tet#Post2092539I've only seen one confirmed hybrid in 30 years of hunting the panhandle. See the link above for a pic. The only way to identify a hybrid is by DNA testing or measuring the tarsal gland. Why the heck did you send the rack to the GW? Unless he's pulling a DNA sample, there's nothing conclusive he can draw from looking at it. Sounds like it's being confiscated.
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270722
04/26/11 04:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 17,104 |
I ain't buying the cross  I hunt where the co exist since 1997 ain't seen it yet! well bmd, what do you have to say about dkershens post.... pretty conclusive if u ask me.... 
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#2270729
04/26/11 04:19 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
Nothing in that pic confirms it for me!
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270732
04/26/11 04:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270737
04/26/11 04:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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This is a confirmed hybrid shot near Fritch in '09. Notice the muley body size, head and ears vs the white tail rear end. The tarsal gland is the key to identifing a true hybrid. In a mule deer it's 3 to 6 inches long. On a white tail it's only an inch or so. Hybrids will always split the difference and come in around 2 inches. This is what most biologists and Game Wardens use to confirm a cross (as well as DNA sampling if someone wants to spend the $$) Racks are never an indication of cross breeding. Just because a muley has a "whitetail looking rack" means nothing. In most cases DNA tests show these bucks to be 100% mule deer. Shooting one and putting a white tail tag on it could be a very costly mistake.  cmon, read the text
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270739
04/26/11 04:24 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
Fixed it for ya 
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#2270746
04/26/11 04:26 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
Looks no different than this wt we shot in childress, who confirmed, body size there are giant wt's in the panhandle. You guys believe what you want. Guess I am hard headed but I will believe when I see it.
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: txshntr]
#2270747
04/26/11 04:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
Vooked it for ya
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270754
04/26/11 04:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270755
04/26/11 04:30 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
Looks different to me...same tail though. I don't know what to believe, but I don't think that it is impossible. Then again, if it is possible, why are they so rare since there many places in Texas that they co-exist.
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270760
04/26/11 04:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
Vooked it for ya  Vooked?
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: txshntr]
#2270762
04/26/11 04:32 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,350 |
It is a wt in that pic, I have no doubt!
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270765
04/26/11 04:34 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216
kyle1974
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,216 |
now.... this is important...
did you use a leupold scope on the rifle that you shot him with?
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: BMD]
#2270768
04/26/11 04:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,954 |
It is a wt in that pic, I have no doubt! Agreed. I can see the white tail. Head looks like a Muley. Wonder what we would call it if it was a pic of just the head? DNA says it is a hybrid. Scientist are never wrong 
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: kyle1974]
#2270769
04/26/11 04:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,481
blancobuster
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,481 |
leupold is not good enough to tell differences in wt and mulie, need higher end optik to tell when they are hybrids
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: blancobuster]
#2270788
04/26/11 04:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,157
KWood_TSU
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,157 |
I've seen a cross in the palo duro canyon myself. 12 miles south of claude. The only way a cross occurs is between a WT buck and mule deer doe. They prefer breed to breed, but will if that's all that is available.
Amat Victoria Curam - Victory Loves Preparation
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: dkershen]
#2270827
04/26/11 05:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
mattm
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527 |
I'm sure of that. I'm just trying to be as cooperative as I can. There is a thrid party involved who is pissed off that I recieved permission from the land owner to hunt where I did. I'm 6 hours away while he is cooking up alot of stories.
...as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free...
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Re: Hybrid Deer
[Re: mattm]
#2270830
04/26/11 05:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527
mattm
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 527 |
some good pics posted here. I've about given up on the specifics of interbreeding. I don't remember the exact measurement of the tarsal gland but the tail is what got me. It was all white-tail and there was no white in the face, just a lighter brown than the rest of the body. What was probably not a smart move was hunting over a canyon with a open-site .45-70. I guess it's up to a DNA test if it ever gets to that point.
BTW about the rack. Something that I din't consider until reading some of the posts unanimously suggesting that the antlers are not a reliable tool in telling the species, the GW did tell me that he can't tell from the pics I sent and needs to see the rack in person. Oh well.
...as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free...
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