so then when all these deer get to be 200+ then all the deer hanging above the fireplace will begin to look average... and that just wont do... so everyone will have to go out and shoot a 15+ deer to replace it.

I still say.... I don't like AR's because I think Nancy Pelosi would.

we could fence the entire state in and take care of two problems!

I am definitely a horn hunter and would love to see anything that would increase my chances of taking larger deer, as long as it was a truly feasible plan. I don't think such a plan exists and feel AR's will have a negative impact on my deer herd over time, if not immediately.

It might work in some parts of the state, maybe even some parts of my county, but I don't see it being a positive for me.

I have an Uncle that is in the bussiness of breeding and selling big deer, he also sells seimen he was approached by a wealthy individual who paid him over $100,000.00 to shoot one of his studs... so your statement is dead on!!!

Right there with you KL. The only thing I have seen work is I was on a lease for 7 years that was 2K acres, but was part of a larger 19K acre co-op under the TP&W MLD program with extensive game management under the supervision of a very capable biologist. It wasn't perfect and there were and always will be mistakes made, but through the education and efforts of hunters and landowners alike, you could start to see definitive improvement in the antlers by Year 3.

Luckily I now hunt an extremely large ranch for the area I'm in of roughly 14K acres with roughly 350 acres per hunter. Not under MLD, but we have a really experienced group who's pretty much all on the same page. All the more maddening when I am forced by bureaucratic nonsense to let the subject buck walk.

We have an old 6 pt on our place that we have watched since we got the place.. He has to be at least 6.5 this yr. He isn't 10 in wide. He has been spreading his genes for a long time. U know how many young, narrow, 6 pts we see? ZERO

When I first started trying thin out some inferior bucks, I had a large group of pencil thin little basket 8 points that I did my best to get rid of. I shot one every year and took friends out to have them do the same, letting all the good bucks walk.

Prior to AR's, I was down to just seeing a couple of these guys per year. This year, I've seen no less than a dozen. Absolutely nothing scientific to that observation and it would take more than just one year of observation to learn much at all, but this is a trend I'm hoping doesn't continue.

My point is antlers have little to do with what buck might be dominant in the herd.

so what is your point?

My point is, most of you guys point to one deer in your herd u can't shoot. If you manage your place right that one buck is not gonna seriously effect your genetics. The fact of the matter is, there will be more 3.5 + yr old deer in Texas thanks to this law. that's not opinion it's fact. Most, not all, of those 1.5 and 2.5 deer are growing at least one more year. The TPW has research that states 4-5% of mature deer are less than 13 inches. Texas will not be over run with tall narrow deer. The only bad thing I see with ARs is the extra deer u can kill in my county. That's a price I'm willing to pay to see more mature deer. The majority of guys want to shoot big old deer. In our democracy, majority rules. I have talked to very few people that don't like the law. Instead of people shooting the 2.5 12" ten, saying if I don't my neighbor will. They have to say I can't shoot him, my neighbor can't shoot him, he will be bigger next year

I'd love to see research from TPWD for my county that proves this. Oh, don't have it for my county? Okay, show me from the neighboring county. Opps, don't have that county either. Okay, what's the closest county? Really, isn't that over 100 miles away from me? Where was the originial study done? Oh, over 300 miles away from me.

My point is, what's good for you may not be good for me.

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think this is a case of "majority rules". That isn't the case with any regulation in this state or this country. "Special Interests" rule now and have for many, many years.

Fixed it for ya.

Problem is they don't have research data the shows how many mature <13" are walking around ALIVE.

What democracy are you refering too? I dont remember this ever being put to a vote.... when you say the majority rules? I dont know what majority you are talking too because I believe the "majority" of people who want to hunt cant afford a lease and really only want to shoot a deer...(if you dont believe that put a post on here for a free doe hunt and see what kind of responce you get) this law is gonna really put a damper on new hunters coming into the sport.... and when you have less and less people hunting, you will have less and less people who care about hunters rights... then you will see what majority rule really means.

to the Antler Restriction Haters Club!

Fact is, TPWD has a history of making dumb far-reaching regulations and sticking with them for years. A good example is the old one-buck county rule. For years, you were able to harvest two bucks from one-buck counties with the stipulation that one had to be east of I35 and the other had to west of I35.

How in the world does which side of the highway matter? I absolutely hated that regulation as we owned property in three different one-buck counties, none of the places closer than 75 miles from each other, yet I could only harvest a buck from one of them. Made no sense and was eventually changed.

Hopefully more thought will be put into AR's as well.

Personally, I think land-owner permits should be issued based upon amount of acreage owned. That would eliminate alot of the issues real fast. Of course, it'd screw the "little" guy pretty bad in the process. But, hey, I'd benefit so we should do it, right?

Fact is, there is no perfect answer, though I really enjoyed hunting more prior to AR's.

glad to be here

Here's your official membership card:

Do you have any pics of these " inferior pencil thin little basket 8 points"? Sounds like 1.5 and 2.5 year olds to me. Inferior??? And now you have "seen no less than a dozen." after shooting 1 a year? Sounds like a good young buck herd.

Just Say'n.....

You are correct in saying that Antlers have little to do with dominance. That 8 point yearling can breed just as much as that 160" 20 inch wide 10 pointer. However, it takes age to get the inches,mass and width. How do you know that the yearling 8 won't become a 160" 20 inch wide 10 pointer? Because he will more than likely be killed at 2.5 and hadn't had time to express his potential

People need to quit worrying about these "cull" bucks ruining a deer herd. You can shoot all of them you want, but you will always have "culls". You aren't going to change a deer herd over night or in the next 20 years. It takes a long time to change genetics. But you can improve the nutrition and age structure of a herd pretty easily.

I believe there are states that do the same thing with other species when it comes to restrictions. Some states require an elk to have 4 points on one side, some states require a sheep to have at least a 3/4 curl before you can shoot it. I believe that some states require a Muley to have at least a fork before it can be shot. In British Columbia, a moose must have 3 point on the front on one side before its legal.

Sad, it is really sad that deer hunting has come down to this.

How does this law keep anyone from shooting a doe. If someone just wants to shoot a deer, there are plenty of deer out there to be killed. What does someone not being able to afford a lease have to do with this conversation. I thought Obama promised everyone a lease before the election. The TPWD is not telling new hunters they can't shoot a deer, but they are telling them they can't shoot the first thing they see with horns. If they just want to shoot a deer, they can shoot a doe. No one should want to shoot a young buck, even new hunters

You're right, most do want to shoot big old deer, but in this case, this law wouldn't let me. And I've talked to very few people who don't hate the law.

More government crapola to boot......might work where you are, but not where I am. There should be some way to have the law not apply to acreages over a certain size or ranches with a fewer number of hunters per acre.

And like others.....what's this majority rules business? Was this put up for a public vote and I missed it?

The "just shoot a doe" argument is so old it has moss on it. Come on, what sex of a deer carries the precious trophy bucks in their womb? It takes 2 sexes of deer to make a deer. Why isn't a doe considered as valuable of a commodity as a buck when it comes to taking one for table fair? Simply because a doe doesn't have decorative head bones, right? And as far as saying a new hunter shouldn't want to shoot a young buck? In who's opinion? Certainly not the TP&Ws because it is them that now allows that young hunter to shoot a young spike as an extra buck no less! "In my opinion", the only deer that AR promoters and the TP&W give a tinker's damn about protecting are the bucks that have multiple points on their racks that aren't a mature trophy yet. Note: this is only the ramblings of a redneck meat hunting brown it's down deer hunter, who's been lucky enough to have had some good bucks in his crosshairs but has also not hesitated to pull the trigger on a doe or legal young buck to put in the freezer. Who's opinions are harmless as a toothless guard dog. But hey, I still love to deer hunt and this is always a fun topic to chime in on.

There is a way for ranches of size to get around the law, it's called MLD permits. They're not just for high fence ranches. If you put in the work and do the surveys, anyone can get them.
We Texans voted the people into office that make the laws. If the "majority" of hunters spoke out, the state would have to change the law. Dont buy a hunting license, that will teach em. I hate the seat belt law, but I have to wear one. It doesn't protect anyone from me, it protects me from myself. Some hunters have to be protected from themselves. Whether they like it or not.

ARs protect some young bucks. Seat belts and speed laws protect human lives....kinda different priority in my eyes. A lot of hunters spoke out in the pre-AR meetings....didn't do any good. I think their minds were already made up.

As condescending as that post is, I'm well aware of MLD....been on three ranches over the past 15 years with just that in place. However the place I'm on now won't be getting on one. And it ain't my decision. And one thing I've learned while being on MLD....the type of buck described at the beginning of this thread would be a prime target instead of being protected. Guess those MLD programs know what they're doing, huh?