I like to put these reports out every once in awhile when I happen to be somewhat paying attention to how people's guns are working. Here is how the guns that I saw today fared:

Pcc's: there were a few guys shooting pcc's, only one consistently choked today. For PCC that's pretty good day. Everybody was shooting an AR style PCC. So yeah, about four of them ran good and one did not. Pretty standard LOL

Open guns, there was one in my squad, it had issues on about half the stages

Limited optics/limited guns: these are all of 2011 variety, everyone worked that I saw

Carry optics guns: there were only two that I recall that fit in that division, was a sig320 and surprisingly enough it seemed to work okay. The other was a Glock, and I believe it choked on two stages. The glock looked pretty stock as I think it was the guys Carry Glock 19 with one of those little square microwave looking red dots on it

One guy was shooting a 9 mm 1911, it had no issues

And one guy was shooting a revolver and it had no issues


There's some random info, get out of it what you can

Have you seen any of the 320’s have discharges?

I have not. Several years ago when I first saw them I was very interested in them. Then after seeing several go down at matches in stock configuration with factory ammo I decided they were not for me. After that, the whole getting dropped and going off thing came about, then the combo of likely going off in holsters and blowing up with factory ammo started to rear its head, and I was glad that I dodged that bullet figuratively and maybe literally LOL


So while I've never seen one go off on its own, I do know people that have had them blow up, and I've personally seen them be the least reliable factory guns I've ever seen.

I know that's more than you asked for, but I figured I would just give my whole opinion right up front LOL

Props to the revolver shooter! I firmly believe shooting a double action revolver in action pistol events has made me a better marksman overall.

Other than the AR PCCs what do you typically see choke?

Number one offender is a sig 320

Open guns are always finicky, but once people get them figured out they tend to work pretty good

And oddly enough the bastion of reliability, Glocks. To be fair, the best way to make a Glock unreliable is give somebody a Dremel and some springs. If they're left alone they tend to work, but everybody wants to try to build a 1911 trigger out of a Glock and that just ain't happening.

Other than a sig 320, pretty much any stock name brand plastic gun is going to work pretty good. Some take to modifying better than others. At least that is what I have seen repeated over and over for 20 years in competitive shooting.

Really, pretty much any decent pistol is pretty damn reliable. I've seen a lot of 1911's running pretty much 100% starting from Rock Island and going on up to Wilson combat. Beretta 92s tend to work pretty damn good, CZ 75 and all of its variants are also very reliable guns.

Is there a stand out in the Glock like guns CZ, Walther PDP, HK, etc?

Stand out how?

As far as reliability, no. (Assuming no gumsmiffing LOL) As far as what people prefer to shoot, generally it is a CZ or a Walther PDP. People tend to prefer the ergonomics of those two guns over something like a Glock. But some people don't like the d a s a trigger in a CZ so they'll do something like a Walther. That said, Glock is still probably the predominant plastic style gun just because of the availability of parts and such. But if they're being honest most people that shoot a Glock and then shoot something like a PDP, prefer the PDP because of ergos and much much better trigger

HK is not a gun I see a whole lot of. I think in all my years of shooting I've seen 5 to 10 of them. I don't remember them not working or anything like that, they just don't have much support for the type of things that we do. And since they don't really offer any advantage over something like a cz, glock, Walther, people just go with the thing that they can get more parts for

I appreciate the feedback, but I was asking specifically about PCCs. Which PCCs tend to perform best / worst?

Gotcha. The AR pcc's do tend to be the most reliable that I see overall. Keep in mind though that nobody is shooting an MP5 at matches, they're just not go fasty enough, so I don't know on something like that. Pcc's like a CZ scorpion and such, people try but then they quit using for different reasons, lack of parts, reliability etc. And you will see it occasional Ruger or something like that, but they tend to be less reliable overall than the AR style guns

Overall it does seem that the roller delayed AR pcc's tend to be a little more reliable.

And pccs may not be really unreliable in the grand scheme of things, but compared to pistols that I see, the pcc's generally have more issues

I shot USPSA PCC for a couple of years when it was first created and have a lot of experience tuning AR9s.

The problem with using USPSA PCC as a gauge for reliability is that people want a platform that is familiar and allows you to go fast - enter the AR9. Then they try to tune them and you end up with a situation like the Glocks that RJH1 mentioned where someone turns them into just unreliable heaps of junk. AR9s can be very reliable, as can most direct blowback guns, but they are jumpy with a terrible recoil impulse if you keep them in an untuned, but reliable configuration.

When you start running mag extensions so you don't have to reload on a stage, running lightened bolt carriers, short stroke and multi-stage buffers, and running light handloads, AR9s have such a small operating window that it's a bit like a .22: everything has to be perfect.

Did you ever try any of the roller delay guns like the jp? Would like to hear your experience if you have, as I am not really a PCC guy

I've never owned one, but I've shot the JP5 on a few occasions from actually three different owners. They've all been flawless in reliability, and they really feel great. Tuning a roller delay to your ammo with locking pieces also doesn't really affect reliability in the same way that a direct blowback gun does. You aren't changing the reciprocating mass, the springs, the bolt travel distance, etc. You're just kinda changing how much force it takes for things to "uncork" and then it's largely the same from there.

The MP5 gets you the same thing in a less competition-specific platform, and it's really amazing that you can get them for <$1k now. I've got an ATI early 00's import MP5 that I love to death after finding the right locking piece for reliability.

BUT for anyone kind of PCC-curious I'd keep an eye out for the Springfield Kuna in the next couple of months. Supposedly <$1k, roller delayed, cheap magazines, and modern ergos. It's got it all! If they seem like high quality guns for the couple of months after release I'm probably going to grab one this summer.

I don't care to participate in competition but what is learned through competition is always interesting. Does anyone use the Springfield XD or the CZ P10C in any of the more limited classes?

I actually shoot an XDM quite a bit. And I've heard them get a bad rap from other people as far as reliability, but mine are actually some of the most reliable guns I've ever seen, bar none. Back in the old days I had an XD and it was just as reliable. Mine have all either been in 9 mm or 40, I have no input on the 10 or 45 models. I don't think they're better than anything else, I started using them way back when they were one of the three or four more popular plastic guns along with Glocks and m& ps and since they've always worked and I think any plastic gun is basically a lateral move from a different one so I've never changed. They're not as popular as they once were, and Springfield doesn't have near as many models as they used to, so if I was starting today I probably would look at a different gun. For me that would probably be an m&p in the plastic gun realm. Or maybe a canik


I only remember seeing one guy shoot a CZ P10, and the only reason I remember seeing it is because it did not want to work at all. And I'm pretty sure it was a factory gun with factory ammo, not something that had been tuned upon. I think he had a Walther at the next match that I saw him at LOL. his may have just been a dud, idk

Not frequently. Not because they're bad guns, but probably because they aren't really known for having a stellar trigger like a Walther or Canik, the market penetration of Glock, or the aftermarket support of CZ's SP01 and Shadow 2.

I shot a P-10F for a couple of matches and really liked it. Overall it was an excellent gun with a great recoil impulse for a polymer 9, I just stuck with Walther because it was easy to get an excellent 3lb trigger pull without affecting reliability.

If you're speaking of the trigger on the xdm, out of the box you're correct they're nowhere near as good as a Walther or a canik, but neither is any other plastic gun lol. But if you're willing to dump a powder River trigger in there, they're actually better IMO than a factory canik or Walther trigger. The plus with the powder River trigger is that you can have a 2ish pound trigger and still use the factory striker spring so you don't have the issue of light strikes and such that people tend to have when they try to make a Glock trigger work real well.

Thanks for the replies.

Once I got over my hatred for plastic gins back in '06, we bought a pair of XD40s for concealed carry. I've never had a malfunction with either one and they seems to be accurate and easy to shoot. More recently I updated our carry guns to P10Cs, and I installed aftermarket the triggers in both of them. My wife still has not shot hers but I have, though not a whole lot of rounds through either. Even so, they seem to be very reliable as well. I do realize that casual shooting won't thoroughly wring out a gun like competition will, though.

That's the first I'm hearing of the Powder River trigger. That's interesting, thanks.

Much like an AK47, the Glocks reliability to function is well established. Decades of dominance made it complacent… lazy about innovation. Now there are a wide variety of polymer / striker fired pistols offering better features and ergonomics.

My shooting partner is a Glock Fanboy. He did a wonderful job polishing his trigger and modifying/swapping springs. The trigger is now clean, light, and as close to 1911/2011 as a Glock could ever be. The “Hiccup” is that it can only be fed ammo that has Federal primers (thinnest/softest primer)…. Any other ammo is a failure to fire… just light strikes that won’t ignite a normal primer?! He has taken arguably the gold standard for torture test reliability and made it a one trick pony. Why?!

Best value for a competition gun is a CZ Shadow 2. This in the European equivalent to a nice 1911/2011. If you get a chance to shoot one you’ll want one.

Need a like button for this thread.

What the heck is a PCC?

Pistol caliber carbine