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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Defining a Cull
#9197532
03/10/25 03:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659
Sparta
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659 |
Hello THF,
I just took over managing a 3K acre lease that I've been on for about 12 years. One of the things that's always bothered me is our lack of a clear definition for a cull. We've always had a 1 trophy 1 cull rule just no clears definition of what's a cull. As you can imagine, it's been a source of disagreements over the years.
We're in a 5 deer (2 bucks / 3 does) county in Central Texas with no AR. Nice trophy bucks score 135 - 140.
How did you guys go about defining a cull on your properties and would anyone mind posting their cull definitions?
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197536
03/10/25 04:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770 |
We went to a lot of effort to teach all our guys how to field score with BC system. I was surprised they picked it up. Then just set a number that is a real low score for your situation. We set 110 and below as cull, 110 to 130 as management and 130 up as Trophy. It worked great. Main reason it worked so good is everyone bought into it and we all shared pics and communicated a lot. The guys that couldnt score as good would ask others opinions of certain bucks and learn from it.
Of course they all had to be old enough. We killed several real crummy older bucks that had 10 or 11 points.
We had a great situation and I doubt it would work for everybody.
And, no, you never will kill all the crummy bucks.
Last edited by freerange; 03/10/25 04:08 PM.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197554
03/10/25 05:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,528
DQ Kid
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,528 |
Now you've done it Free, I've always read or heard cull and management are synonymous, same thing but you seem to be saying they're not. Regardless, I've always viewed cull or MGMT. Bucks as those deer with less than trophy buck traits or potential, no matter the diet fed or naturally provided, they just lack the potential to ever be trophy class Don't like to put a score on it but after nearly 50 years of hunting, I know what it is when I see it...Inferior genetics for the area, plain and simple.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: DQ Kid]
#9197568
03/10/25 05:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770 |
Now you've done it Free, I've always read or heard cull and management are synonymous, same thing but you seem to be saying they're not. Regardless, I've always viewed cull or MGMT. Bucks as those deer with less than trophy buck traits or potential, no matter the diet fed or naturally provided, they just lack the potential to ever be trophy class Don't like to put a score on it but after nearly 50 years of hunting, I know what it is when I see it...Inferior genetics for the area, plain and simple. I agree with everything you said but it doesnt change what I said. I dont consider our system as "intensively" managed but we just take it a little further than some. If you are trying to keep buck doe ratio in check as well as total deer numbers then you need to kill bucks too. But I hate killing too many Trophies so you have to work at identifying the inferior bucks and taking them out. To do this it helps to identify a subset within the inferior bucks. In other words, there is inferior and there is REAL inferior. We actually referred to them as "Quality" Mgmt bucks and "Inferior" Mgmt bucks. I hated to use the term "cull" cause I felt it implied you were culling out bad genetics and I feel all you are doing is getting a mouth gone. It helps to have a distinction within these lessor bucks cause a high end Mgmt buck could be a Trophy to some so you dont want one individual to kill too many. The low end Mgmt are so bad that they can always be taken out. All this is assuming you have enough tags to kill more than a buck or two.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197595
03/10/25 07:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,762
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,762 |
If you don't want to see something that looks like the one in front of you, I can only hope you are allowed to shoot it. When a doe is in need, she ain't real picky.
Last edited by Hudbone; 03/10/25 07:05 PM.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197596
03/10/25 07:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959 |
Cull is the largest deer you can get away with out not having to ask about it counting towards your allotment…
Management is deer you have to ASK about It not counting toward your allotment.
Example
3 year old plus 7pt or 3 year old plus six point… cull
Management any deer 4 year old deer that’s 8pts under 115 or 6.5 year that’s under 125 regardless of points
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197598
03/10/25 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 417
doggit
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 417 |
Worst looking deer in each age class from 2 yr old and up. Short brows, short tine length. We even cull if have shirt g2's. No mass older deer. Basically, the ones we don't like the look of. 3 yr olds having only 8 points. Unless you just want a pasture full of 8 points. There is no cull definition. We're doing something right. Look at a lot of our deer long brows, which I think are inheritable, long main beams and g2,3,and 4s. www.cougarredranchtx.com
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197619
03/10/25 09:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 820
Russ79
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 820 |
One of my leases was put on MLD this past season. This is the criteria we were given for bucks:
Trophy
Bucks that are 4-1/2 years or older
Cull/Management
3-1/2 years or older with seven points or less
4-1/2 years or older with eight points or more that score less than 110 BC
When the guys had to go from making sure they were 13" to gauging age before pulling the trigger, you realize how many young bucks your really have.
Last edited by Russ79; 03/10/25 09:08 PM.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197692
Yesterday at 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498 |
What and if you cull deer depends on many factors. If you are in the hill country for example and the top end bucks are 120-140 at a mature age then that is totally different from being in South Texas on a ranch -
in my experience the number one management you can do is to cull does hard - a property can only hold so many deer based on the amount of food and browse available - as I have said on this forum for years - deer management is the same as a pond or lake management - if you have too many small bass in a pond you will never grow big bass unless you take the number of mouths away. Same with a deer herd. So if you cull the does to take out the number of mouths to feed then the bucks will benefit -
We grow 200 inch LF deer - we do it by culling does, and then culling 4 year or older bucks with 8 points or less and then letting our good bucks grow to maturity - we have plenty of water available and feed protein for when the rain does not happen and they need supplemental feed - pretty basic and common sense plan -
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197718
Yesterday at 01:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,529
Texas buckeye
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,529 |
Agree with all the above. Cull is essentially whatever you want to call it. If you are the manager, you can make that determination.
Age and small rack are usually the criteria. Sometimes it's age and medium rack or small rack. Age and a big rack are typically trophy status. But again, you ge too make that criteria too if you are the manager.
If it were up to me, I would look at the average score estimate for a mature buck and then take off another 10-15' and say that is a no brainer shoot.
But, there is research out there that states any given year a bucks antlers will not be predictive of the offspring it can produce.....so shooting culls in a LF place is not necessary from a "genetics standpoint", it is strictly a way to get more mouths off a place. And hopefully get your lease members more into evaluating a specific buck age and antler characteristics to be able to make better decisions about what to shoot.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197810
Yesterday at 02:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659
Sparta
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659 |
Appreciate all the feed back gentleman and agree with a lot of the points being made. Here is what I've come up with as a starting point. Will most likely refine and simplify through the off season:
Must shoot a doe before a buck can be taken.
Cull:
3.5+ - Less than 8pts, narrow spread, or poor mass
2+ - Spike or missing brow tines
2.5+ unbalanced or deformed antlers
4.5+ scoring less than 125
Might add something for old (6.5+) bucks.
Trophy:
5.5+ scoring greater than 125. (I might bump this number up to 130)
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197824
Yesterday at 02:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959 |
Appreciate all the feed back gentleman and agree with a lot of the points being made. Here is what I've come up with as a starting point. Will most likely refine and simplify through the off season:
Must shoot a doe before a buck can be taken.
Cull:
3.5+ - Less than 8pts, narrow spread, or poor mass
2+ - Spike or missing brow tines
2.5+ unbalanced or deformed antlers
4.5+ scoring less than 125
Might add something for old (6.5+) bucks.
Trophy:
5.5+ scoring greater than 125. (I might bump this number up to 130) You need to define spread, if you want to use that, make it a number. I wouldn’t use mass as a qualifier though.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197844
Yesterday at 04:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,770 |
"Unbalanced or deformed antlers". Just me, but I would 100% not put that in there. Most of the time deformed antlers are from an injury and will often go back to normal the next set he grows. I have seen several examples of this. I could dig out pics of some. Google "spike on one side" and it explains what happens when an antler doesnt shed completely but there can also be injury during velvet.
Ill reiterate what I said about using BC score. We used it and it worked great but you really have to make sure guys learn how to score. I put together a 2 hour video on how to score and the guys really picked up on it, but its still hard. If you cull hill country deer at 4yo and 125 then you will likely have a lot of 135s come in that they will honestly(or dishonestly) say they just misjudged. Our system helped this cause we all shared pics and would talk about them, so often most bucks we had talked about their score before they were killed. Did not have to preapprove before killing, but in reality a buck was often known and prescored by several.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: freerange]
#9197867
Yesterday at 05:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659
Sparta
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659 |
"Unbalanced or deformed antlers". Just me, but I would 100% not put that in there. Most of the time deformed antlers are from an injury and will often go back to normal the next set he grows. I have seen several examples of this. I could dig out pics of some. Google "spike on one side" and it explains what happens when an antler doesnt shed completely but there can also be injury during velvet.
Ill reiterate what I said about using BC score. We used it and it worked great but you really have to make sure guys learn how to score. I put together a 2 hour video on how to score and the guys really picked up on it, but its still hard. If you cull hill country deer at 4yo and 125 then you will likely have a lot of 135s come in that they will honestly(or dishonestly) say they just misjudged. Our system helped this cause we all shared pics and would talk about them, so often most bucks we had talked about their score before they were killed. Did not have to preapprove before killing, but in reality a buck was often known and prescored by several. We have a good number of 2.5 - 3 year old's running around that have a normal rack on one side but short tines on another. This is what I was trying to get at with the "Unbalanced or deformed antlers". I see how this can get confused with injured buck which we would definitely want to give a pass. I could remove "deformed" but I think my guys know the difference and it's something that can be explained. We don't have a ton of spikes that are older than 1.5 - 2 but do have a good number with no brow tines that I'd like to see removed. I like the video and pics sharing idea. I'll probably put something together and start an online photo album with a good cross section of examples that can be refreshed each season.
Last edited by Sparta; Yesterday at 05:25 PM.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197870
Yesterday at 05:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659
Sparta
OP
Tracker
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OP
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 659 |
I think it's also important to note that all of the hunters want cull definitions put in place. So I don't think we'll have issue with anyone purposely being dishonest. Mistakes will happen and that's ok as long as it doesn't become a pattern with anyone.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197875
Yesterday at 05:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,711
BayouGuy
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,711 |
Keeping it simple, our 10-man 960-acre club has one simple harvest rule. Each member can take two bucks and one doe. No one hassles anyone over the size of the bucks they choose to shoot. We probably should re-name ourselves to the "Don't Overthink it Club." 
If you can't laugh at yourself, give me a call. I'll gladly laugh at you.
"I keep trying to see Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Schumer's point of view,
but I can't seem to get my head that far up my [censored]." Senator John Kennedy, Louisiana
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197918
Yesterday at 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,188
gary roberson
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,188 |
While standards should be dictated by what you hope to accomplish on a particular piece of land and this could be wide varying, I would just say that a cull is something that you don't want to see again next year.
Adios,
Gary
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: gary roberson]
#9197939
Yesterday at 09:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,762
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 15,762 |
While standards should be dictated by what you hope to accomplish on a particular piece of land and this could be wide varying, I would just say that a cull is something that you don't want to see again next year.
Adios,
Gary It's not too complicated
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197946
Yesterday at 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498 |
Freerange and I have stated this for years on this site - the number one way to have a smooth running lease is to match the lease goals to the lease hunters.
If the lease is a laid back, no (or few) rules, shoot whatever you feel like then make sure join a lease that operates that way.
On the other hand if the lease is management minded and the goal is to grow large bucks then most likely there will be clear rules laid out and the LO and/or lease manager will enforce those rules.
Nothing wrong with either approach - problems arise when folks join a lease that does not match what they are really looking for.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9197950
Yesterday at 10:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,186
don k
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,186 |
Culling by age? I would seriously doubt that 10% of the folks on here including myself can guess within 2 years how old a deer is. Except for the first year and a half. Then that is usually not that hard.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: don k]
#9197973
Yesterday at 10:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498
tlk
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,498 |
Culling by age? I would seriously doubt that 10% of the folks on here including myself can guess within 2 years how old a deer is. Except for the first year and a half. Then that is usually not that hard. If you follow the deer like we do through trail cameras and videos then we can track many of our bucks and determine the age we think they are - not perfect but certainly has worked for us over the many years on our lease
You can't fix stupid
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: don k]
#9197979
Yesterday at 11:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959 |
Culling by age? I would seriously doubt that 10% of the folks on here including myself can guess within 2 years how old a deer is. Except for the first year and a half. Then that is usually not that hard. You would be wrong. Once you actually have mature deer you will know mature deer
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Hudbone]
#9197984
Yesterday at 11:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,959 |
While standards should be dictated by what you hope to accomplish on a particular piece of land and this could be wide varying, I would just say that a cull is something that you don't want to see again next year.
Adios,
Gary It's not too complicated It’s not when you are hunting true 150 plus inch deer at maturity, and have a set feed bill. But the guy that is “TRYing” to kill a mature 130, well that’s a different kind of lease
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9198043
12 hours ago
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,598
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 15,598 |
I get rid of doe’s that are too old to fawn and spikes. I’ve seen some rough looking young bucks that end up being late bloomers. I don’t worry about it too much because I don’t want it to not be fun. A lot of folks I know have turned hunting into work.
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Re: Defining a Cull
[Re: Sparta]
#9198058
11 hours ago
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 934
Double AC
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 934 |
A cull on our ranch is a deer with zero antler and behavioral characteristics that I like
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