No that’s to get to below CC, if you only have does that are 2,4,6 you are 5 years into your flop, this is all assuming you have the tag numbers, and you know your heard numbers and ration begs to greatly reduce the number. You are still killing does on years you aren’t on the doe fawn flop.

Once at CC you can still do the doe fawn flop but the intervals would be extended out more,

Ive never read the research but im with Quit on “few” fawns breeding and being good mommas. “Some” will breed, “some” of those will carry to term, “some” of those will make it past the coyotes. That small original number keeps getting even smaller until very few will be recruited into the herd as past their own birthday. Maybe it’s different on properties that are intensively managed but I always feel that the number of those places are very “few”. Just my opinion.

How do you know it’s rare unless you are killing late season Yearlings?

Many moons ago, we were on a mission to kill a bunch of does. I screwed up and killed two button bucks in the same morning hunt. Three of us, including the ranch owner, loaded them up in the bed of the truck. We all thought they were does until we actually got them up on the gambrel and started cutting. I felt awful about it, and still do...and, yes, I still get ribbed about it. Fortunately, the ranch owner (who is one of my best friends and has many more years of hunting experience than me) didn't fine me or send me packing. Instead, he used it as a teaching moment and provided some tips on how to avoid making that mistake in the future. I learned from it, and it's never happened again.

I have a lot more experience these days, but I continue to learn from him, and our friendship will remain intact until we're both gone from this earth. That's what hunting should be about, in my opinion.

They are few, that was my very first post, most people don’t have the acreage or tags, much less the stomach. But if you want to lower does numbers exponentially take out bottom age class,

But like any policy there needs to be hard data to make rules make sense. If you are limited on doe numbers then try to take top age class to encourage more multi year recruitment from the younger ages.

I can’t understand why people shoot young deer, I see nice young upcoming bucks every year, I will see them every time I go and, then they are gone never seen again.
I believe most parts of the state will grow trophy deer if they can get the age on them.

Says who? Where are you getting your info? I provided links that clearly support the commonality of fawn breeding. Every herd is different, but prove it's minuscule. You even said does won't produce for TWO YEARS. That simply isn't correct, even if they don't breed at 6-8 months. You can bet your bottom dollar they'll breed at 18 months (yearlings). As for good conditions in Texas, outside of 2011, my place in the panhandle has had outstanding fawn recruitment. In fact, I haven't had a hunt in the last two or three years where I saw zero deer, and I'll hunt for two solid weeks at a time. I see deer every sit.

The link above that sniper John posted said “fawns rarely reproduce”. It elaborated by saying except in areas of superior habitat like ag regions of Midwest.
I only glanced at it though.
It also said yearlings that breed dont have twins and usually only older does have twins and triplets.

Very interesting thread and highlights the difference between southern and northern populations. Up here if you have a doe tag and a doe and fawn come in we will always shoot the fawn. The logic is if you shoot the doe the fawn will not survive its first winter on its own. So if you shoot the doe you have killed probably 3 or 4 deer - the fawn that starves to death on its own in the winter, the doe you shot and perhaps the one or two fetuses the doe is carrying. Single small deer on its own usually gets a pass as probably a button buck.

The survival rate for does depends on age for sure...for us, our count showed these numbers :..1 1/2 age doe had a fawn survival rate of .10 ....2 1/2 rate of .70 ......3 1/2 had .78 ....4 1/2 had 2.01....5 1/2 had 2.08....and a 61/2 had 2.08 and so forth. These numbers come from me only counting deer over a number of years. It's possible this could change from area to area but for me it did not change much.
So when I wanted to trim my doe herd, I harvested what ever many of mature does needed, normally...I didn't have any rules but all but one hunter when using their tags took mature does only. We had a low fence and had many hunters that took does off of our place so I had to take what number of does normally harvested by each pasture when issuing our permits. My neighbors also took mature does.. normally. This worked for us until some years more were taken than expected and drew down the numbers too low. So had to rebound the doe herd I had to work with my neighbors. This worked for us some what. I maintained a ratio from 1.4 to 1.1 for the most part.

Texas has so many distinct(and imported) herds and ecological zones, that heath and rut dates greatly vary through out the state. That study above gave 10% as a number, I’ve seen has high as 20%, and that’s just what we took notice to on field dressing,



There is a huge difference in managing a large MLD property and shooting doe fawns to eliminate an age classes of does vs young bucks. They aren’t interchangeable from a management plan, with that said there are also ranches that cull any buck that’s not 150 by 4

Majority of hunters in Texas dont actually know their ratios, CC or age structure much less have the tags, property size and will power to manage to these levels anyway.

We don’t shoot fawns as a practice not saying it can’t be useful in some ways, but don’t think we are at or even remotely close to that level of management.

I do believe they are capable of breeding, every year I see does that have a fawn with them that is nearly the same size as the momma which I believe is indication of a fawn being bred and raising a fawn the next year. For most part percentages without a study or an excel sheet for years are just blagh to me.

The question is not that 1 1/2 year olds are capable of breeding but can they have a surviving fawn? I know the doe must have a fawn at least 6.5 lb.s at birth to have a chance for survival. The numbers don't support more than 0.10 for sure for me. Funny you say I need a study and an excel worksheet...rest assured I have many worksheets for every year I count and I have been counting for 15 years. Each year I spend 100s of hours on the computer and hours in the pasture. I have the ability to get the number of does, bucks, and fawns accurate. The numbers must all relate to each other...I can count the does from fawns...fawns from does...bucks numbers from does...does from bucks...and can estimate next years fawns with pretty good accuracy. My biologist like my reports.LOL
They probably get a real laugh at the reports. For every report I probably spend over a 100 hours and lot of money. No one I know of can get a report as accurate. I will read at least 1500 pictures of does and the same for the bucks and spend twice as much time for fawns as I have to have a picture for each side for each fawn and read all the spots for each sides ...all for each camera and I have out 11 cameras. Then tabulate the bucks for size ..and points.
The rest of my time I get some rest..LOL
But rest assured I know my deer.

^^^^Above in red is key to many comments on any deer management topic. I feel the guys that intensively manage a place are in a very small majority and how they operate is very different than the masses. I often point this out so that the 99%ers(like me) dont attemt what the 1%ers do.

I personally think that shooting fawns as a deer management tool is one of the dumbest ways to do it. You try to improve your herd. You take out the inferior animals. Whether they be males or females that don't meet your goals. Every year your objective gets closer. Then you start shooting fawns. These are the product of your work. And now you want to take them out? Makes no sense to me. You take out the oldest does and bucks that don't have the look you want. Don't shoot the fruits of you labor.

Your conjecture assumes the removal of "inferior animals" and indiscriminate removal of fawns. For one, when removing does, you NEVER know if you're removing superior OR inferior genetics. It's moot. Two, no one has advocated for indiscriminate removal of fawns. Most of us are discussing removing doe fawns in terms of mouths and impact to habitat.