A buddy gave me a 40% off coupon and I’m just wondering if there’s anything worth buying.

The long range guys poo poo the turret tracking but I’m thinking one of their low end scopes might be good for a knock around rifle.

What say ye?

Many with far more experience will say they are horrible and have seen dozens of scopes self destruct in person however they have always performed well for me. I ran an HS-T model for about 10 years and now running the PST II as they were far cheaper than anything in comparison.

If you have money for Razors they are supposed to be built well and have reliable turrets but heavy.

The Razor LHT seems like it might fill a niche for many people if you need a hunting scope with tactical features.

The Fury 5000’s are pretty good, they are not Alpha glass but good, and the AB works very well in them. The Razor spottting scope is fair. They do have a knockoff RRS tripod that is not bad as well. Just steer clear of anything that mounts on a rifle.

I have a cheaper Strike Eagle SFP 1-8x24 that I bought when I wanted to see what the lpvo hype was all about, it's decent. I put a good amount of rounds through it on an AR-15, AK, and some bolt guns, never had any issues. I'll say, there is a bit of fish-eye at 1x and the eye relief is kind of bad at 8x, but it's not something I couldn't live with on what amounts to probably a $180 scope. On the opposite side of the spectrum, the Razor HD Gen 3 line is some of the best mid-range glass you can get in my opinion.

When you shop with the 40% off coupon, always double check other websites like optics planet, palmetto state, etc. Most of the time, Vortex isn't selling for MSRP, so there isn't really much of a discount to be had at 40%.

There might be some scopes you could get zeroed, and then don't touch the elevation turret again. Just do reticle holds.

Don't "knock around" the rifle too badly, with one of their lower end scopes.

Never give a dime to Optics Planet.

But EuroOptic is where you want to go.

Yup.

I've spent about $50k with Euro Optic this year. Not one single problem.

Don’t know where you saw long range shooters poo pooing Vortex trackng. The Razor Gen II and even more so the GenIII are excellent top tier scopes but are made for competition and thusly heavy for hunting applications. The most used in PRS right now are Leupold,Tangent,then Vortex as third most used.
The only two scope brands for competition since you mentioned long range I would have over my Gen III Razors would be a ZCO or maybe try another Tangent Theta since they have introduced a new reticle I like better than the one I sold… although they still have their turret numbers tiny.

No tracking problems with my first gen PST. It’s had close to 4000 founds under it and has worked flawlessly out to 1200 yards.

My son just pick up a new/box open Vortex 4 -24X strike Eagle on ebay for $220.00 to put on his Tikka .308. Optics are clear and bright and tracks great. He's just a simple deer/hog hunter, nothing fancy. Won't dial his turrets and his shots are 200 yards or less. Usually 150 yards on the stand he hunts. He wanted more magnification than the 1-6X he's had on it for years. Nice find and nice scope for the money!

Anything Razor and above is pretty solid

Razor line. Spotter, bino’s or LHT

Razor spotter eye piece AFTER warranty replacement.

I would probably buy one of their Razor spotting scopes.

I had a Razor on a 25-06 that I used for several years and then the side focus knob seized up. They sent me a brand new one and the reticle did not light up on it, so they sent me another one and it is still in the box.

"Theur customer service and warranty is great!"

Yeah, and most everyone has used it.

Seems like it’s just hit or miss.

Gives meaning to “buy nice or buy twice”

Heck from all I know, I’m still considering their rifle mounted rangefinder. If it’s up to speed, it’s an excellent tool.

Did they send a new eye piece or re-glue that one? I broke my little razor on a tumble, they sent me a new one.

That belonged to a guy at a match that had just got it back from vortex for a different issue. He was less than pleased. I can’t speak to what happened, he just showed it to me and I took the pic.

With all the quality optics companies that exist I just don’t understand why I would ever buy their products. If their allegedly good product line was considerably less expensive than others, then maybe, but they’re not.

So if he knocked it over on the concrete it would still be Vortex' fault? Kind of ridiculous showing something like this without knowing any details IMO.

The only truly worthwhile product(s) they have is their UHD binocular line. Everything else has better competition at typically more attractive price points (especially if folks would pick up the phone and ask for the best price).

I had a Viper HS go from working great on several hunts to having insufficient elevation to get to 100 yards; even dialing the previously validated 775 yards. Both a friend and myself remounted and attempted to re-zero. Again dialing to the previously validated 775 yards was insufficient to get to 100 yards. Sent it in and Vortex said the scope was good to go. Their service department was kind enough to put the scope right back at the number of clicks required to get to 775 yards. Removed the base, installed a 20 MOA base (which eventually became my de facto Vortex band aid) and sold the scope and rifle.

Both a new Viper and it had insufficient elevation to get to 100 yards on a. 308 Win. A friend and I remounted and still had insufficient elevation. Vortex checked the scope out and it was "perfect" so they claimed that my rifle had to be bent. Crazy part was a different Vortex scope worked fine on that "bent" rifle with the same rings, base, and ammo.

I had a new scope that lasted literally a handful of shots on a 6.5 CM before an internal lens went horizontal. The service center sent me the scope back unfixed. After a bit of wrangling, I finally got the scope repaired.

The only working Vortex scope that I still have is an old Diamondback that just keeps on ticking. My Vipers and Razors have all gone tits up at some point.

Between Trijicon, Maven, and Nightforce (especially with some sales and open box deals) you can get significantly better scopes that actually have a strong reputation for being reliable.

That’s actually a bad statement, I know who it is and trust the veracity of it. You interjecting is what is ridiculous. Stick with what you know. I appreciate that input.

???

^^^^^^^

Find me a better scope than the Vortex Razor Gen III 6-36 for 2500 ( average I paid for my 3) and I will buy one tomorrow. As I said above there are probably two brands that are 2% better but both cost close to or above 5,000.00. I have the Nightforce 7-35 ATACR and it’s close to as good as the Vortex but I like the Vortex better and it’s a 1000.00 cheaper.

I know these are not generally used in hunting but the OP asked if Vortex made anything good and they must because even when I am at elk or deer camp most of the glass I see is Vortex with Leupold right there as well.

I have not owned a lot of Vortex glass personally maybe 20 or so counting bino’s scopes Spotters and so far no failures. My son did have a red dot on his service weapon AR that failed but he said it was due to abuse and it was replaced by Vortex overnight.

Gotcha, almost looks like glue gave out from heat etc. I’d been less than pleased also!

There are a lot of optics companies but not make optics makers. I think Vortex has gotten so big that they have had to constantly look for more MFG capacity and in doing so have to use the lessor MFG’s

Best bang for the buck on the planet as far as binoculars go. My 8x32 UHD's are easily on par with my 10x and 8x SLC's, and 10x Meostar HD's.

Cheap labor, cheap materials and cheap processes make for a cheap product. Companies expand their product lines to widen their customer base and that can work out great for kitchen products, but in the optics industry they sacrifice their reputation. If ALL they care about is money it’s probably working out great for them.

I’m still happy with all the vortex products I own. Small sample size as I only have a pst gen 1 a gen 2 and a range finder. I did buy them all on pretty massive sales at the time and got between 40-50% off.

Everything is made to a price point no matter who's brand is on it. They obviously have a good reputation with the vast majority of the public since they're the largest optics seller in the world now. After they way they handled the Liberty Optics fiasco where the dealer screwed over a whole bunch of Vortex customers, Vortex earned a huge amount of my respect.

Largest rifle scope or sport optics companies in the world. They aren’t even mentioned.

This is just the rifle scopes.

https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/riflescopes-market

Very unlikely that NF is going to break.

I'd bet my lunch money the Vortex is going to break at some point. The extra $1000 is so a guy isn't broke down 14 hours from home. On a hunt, or in a rifle match.

I've got 3 NF scopes. I've got 0 Vortex scopes.

For good reason.

Briefly looking at the web report above, it mentions Nikon Corporation. Haven't they been out of the rifle scope business for a while now?

Nikon bailed from the scope market several years ago, and is hardly considered a competitor anymore. Not sure of the validity of that link NTX provided either, but he is correct in that I should have said "one of the largest", as if it matters anyway.

https://rocketreach.co/vortex-optics-profile_b5eab398f42e7a5d
https://rocketreach.co/nightforce-optics-profile_b588c96af659348d
https://rocketreach.co/leupold-stevens-inc-profile_b5c699f3f42e0c91
https://rocketreach.co/hawke-optics-profile_b5c0aa1ef42e0840

You're probably fine with their observation optics. Spotting scopes, binoculars, range finder.

Though, I've got a Gen 1 Razor spotter I need to send in for the second time. The first time it got dust inside it. 6 months after it came back from them it got water inside it. I thought sealing optics was an old, proven feature.

Nah. No need for that. They’ve got a great warranty!

NO

I know haters are gonna hate and this won’t change anyone’s opinion but I saw this just now and seeing above posts about how Vortex ranks in the market.
No 1 brand sold by Scheels 👍Congrats to Vortex!

That's to be expected considering average price point.

It’s impossible to get this question answered but I’d like to know how many people that bought a Vortex at Scheels did their own research vs ask the person behind the counter which scope to buy

Just proves your average hunter/shooter doesn't buy quality equipment.

Why would anyone one buy optics from big box store. They are always going to follow MAP. Where as the smaller retailers may have the “demo’s /openbox” discount that you have to “call about”

Sure, buy a scope. Have the big box store mount it, and bore sight it. They screw that up. Burn up a minimum of a 20 round box of junk ammo to get it zeroed-ish. Call it good. Shoot deer vitals at 100 yards, tell your friends it was a good buy.

Thar tells what a good rifle scope is.

Pretty much gotta agree with all that. Your average deer hunter just described.

He left out sighting in a Vortex with the target on the bag of corn.

We forget that most of the hunters really are content with what is being described above. They’re hunters not target shooters and they pay less attention to their rifle and scope than they do their knives when they get ready to go hunt. In the hunting world I almost agree having shot deer with a .357 and 45 Colt knowing it would get the job done. Then again I carry the right tool for the job of the day. Most of those 70 yard feeder hunters are ill prepared to become pipeline hunters and they don’t even know it.

By the way I was quite content hunting my 70 yard feeder yesterday and using 257 Roberts with a 3-9. (Not a Vortex)

I have used the the back rest on one of my Double Bull blind chairs to verify zero so I might be a redneck
By that I mean I shot the chair from 100 yds away laying prone. Why else would they put a bullseye on it.🎯
It wasn’t a Vortex either it was a Trijicon…. Its long gone glass was 😑

I rebarreled a friend's rifle last year, and did a load development.

The Vortex Crossfire gave me fits just trying to get a 100 yard zero (bad tracking). I took the rig to the big range and shot it to 500 yards, only using reticle holds. When he came to pick it up he asked why I didn't dial the turret. I explained that it does not track well, and it can't be trusted to dial up, and then return to zero. He said he wants a scope he can dial or make reticle holds with. He had a +/- $1000 budget. I brought up Burris and Night Force SHV. He's coming today to have me mount, bore sight, and zero the Night Force SHV. I think the Crossfire is going on a .22 lr.

I remember when certain folks (ahem) here thought Vortex was the cat's azz.

Then again, I remember when I thought Leupold was the cat's azz.

What a difference ten years make! LOL. What will we think ten years from now??


Happy new year.

Good response RR. As a kid, I was on cloud-9 when my dad gave me my 1st scope. It was a quintessential Weaver K4. Never failed!

Happy New Year!

This is probably before the company changed it's pronunciation to Loo-pold and their customers started "running" other brands.

My gosh, I've gotten a kick out of this thread. The product hatred is immense! Y'all make it sound as if Vortex...and Leupold "can't" build a quality product. How many matches are won with Leupold each year. How many satisfied hunters and shooters love there Luepold and Vortex scopes. Show me any scope manufacture on the planet, that hasn't had a product go belly up for one reason or another. Will someone please list the percentages of Leupold & Vortex scopes that come back for repair. If it's like you say, they'll all fail, it's just a matter of time. If that's the case none of them would be in business and Scheels and others wouldn't carry and support there products.

My Leupold VX-6 3-18X44mm tracks dead nuts on out to 1100 yards, as does my new GPO 3-18X44mm scope. That's the farthest I've shot them. I would expect nothing less. Did I get the exception to the rule here? We've had Vortex scopes on many of our rifles at the ranch. None have gone in for repair. The only scope I've ever sent in was a Burris. They warrantied the scope, fixed the issue and sent it back. It's operated flawlessly ever since. Leupold & Vortex have some of the best mechanical and optical design engineers working for them. There products like most are designed on computers and manufactured using CNC equipment. I'm sure the tolerances are very stringent. They're an ISO 9001 complaint company. That means everything is in the design and manufacturing process documented and processes are strictly followed. These products are not made in a garage. I'm an optical engineer (fiber optics), thirteen years ago one of divisions failed an ISO-9000 audit. Many heads rolled and folks were fired, some demoted. It was devastating to the company and that division. Many changes were made through out the company for a couple folks lax work.

I get it if you've had bad experience(s) with a given product. It doesn't mean the every product will fail and company is crud. My 2015 Ram was declared a lemon after many months and I got a new one. I bought my new Ram 2500 in 2021. They make quality hard working trucks.

Everyone has there likes and dislikes. Me, I'm not a Chevy fan. Doesn't mean they don't make a quality product, I like my Rams.

Let my beatings begin!

12th man, if you think Trump Derangement Syndrome has been bad after the election, you need to prepare yourself for the LDS and VDS onslaught, but I think you know that!

Yeah, that’s why I said let my beatings begin!😂😂😂

ANY company can build a fine scope. A good engineering team allowed to do what it believes is best will always succeed, but the sad fact of the matter is that engineering does not control the product lines. Engineering must comply with the bean counters' demands, and that will be reflected in the product specifications. ISO certification does not guarantee a high quality (and by "quality" I mean a desirable product, not QC jargon) product, it merely means there IS documentation for processes and that documentation is available where it is supposed to be available as are production records, sourcing records, and all that crap. It does not even mean that whatever the documents say is supposed to happen on the production floor is actually happening and that people are not pencil whipping stuff. Look at a blisterpack scope at Walmart, and you may well see the ISO seal on the back of the packaging. In my opinion, ISO is a joke. And YES, I have some experience with quality standards.

Having owned at least 40 Leupold scopes ranging from the old Vari-X II to the VX-5 series, I can honestly state that I learned early on that zeroing a Leupold was likely to be like a cat-and-mouse game and it most often was. I tolerated it because once set they held zero for the most part, the optical quality was very good, and their warranty was very good. I owned nothing BUT Leupold scopes for years. What turned me a little live video podcast type thing they put on maybe seven years ago where these two flat-billed cap wearing yahoos stood before the cameras and told the world that Leupold scopes track perfectly and that any tracking issue was due to damage or a defect in the one individual scope in question. That told me right then that changes had taken place at the top, and the company was going to coast on its reputation until either someone reads the handwriting on the wall and takes heed, or Leupold & Stevens goes the way of the pterodactyl (along with that wonderful lifetime warranty).

Now I own scopes that have adjustments that move the point of impact up, down, left, or right in accordance with the number of clicks I hear or feel, and I ain't going back.

I want other people's Vortex, Leupold, Swarovski, and Zeiss scopes to be easy to zero, track properly, and return to zero. But, I've seen too many of them that did not. I am actually surprised when any one of those brands works 100% like they are supposed to.

I don't own any of those brands of rifle scooes, but I have to work with them throughout the year. I just call em like I see em.

Remington Arms was an ISO-9000 company.

Remington Arms rested on their laurels and let quality fall by the wayside.

Remington Arms filed for bankruptcy. And they deserved it.

Yep. And look at the once vaunted Nissan Motor Corporation---once a model for quality control everywhere.

It's all about the bottom line nowadays......ROI, and returns to shareholders. Some are good at it, and some suck. Only the strong survive.

Remington Arms was an ISO-9000 company.

Remington Arms rested on their laurels and let quality fall by the wayside.

Remington Arms filed for bankruptcy. And they deserved it.

Being an ISO compliant company has nothing to do if you survive in today's world. Build garbage products that no one wants and they get what's coming. Read the book Good to Great. It highlights many companies that beat wall street expectations for fifteen years straight and how they did it. Most no longer exist for choosing other bad business processes.

JG, from the outside looking in as I don't know you but I read your remarks. Some I agree with some I just raise an eyebrow. I really think you have little to no understanding on what goes into how a large manufacture, creates a project for a new product. Everyone has COGs (cost of goods sold). This is the total costs of the entire project for that given product. This are up front numbers that will change the further you get into the gates before the project is given the green light. You might refer to them as been counters, but not really. A lot of this is how much will this product...lets say a scope, going to cost to manufacture. Is this product what our large customer base wants? If it's for a military application things get really interesting. What margins do we need to make sure customers purchase them and it remains profitable to the company. Commodity products like printers may have less than 8% margins. This means they have a sell a bunch of them. Other products have 60 to 80% margins. They need to be manufactured so they meet given build criteria to assure low rates defects and don't fail in the field. They don't build a $3500 scope to sell for $500. Every product has it's place, price point that customers are looking for and willing to spend and the company's has a healthy ROI.

To say, "I am actually surprised when any one of those brands works 100% like they are supposed to". Is your very bias opinion. You act as if Vortex, Leupold, Swarovski, and Zeiss scopes don't have some of the best engineers, R&D departments, and rigorous test facilities as well as the proper equipment to actually test their products to make sure they perform accordingly. Again, they're not built and made in a garage. They work for millions of customers, militaries and competitive shooters just not you! We get it, you don't care for these manufactures. A lot of us do for good reason as they work for us.

Does vortex make anything worth a chit?
Yes. A helluva warranty. Prepare to use it.

If buying Vortex, buy two so when one is out for warranty you have a backup.

<stir><stir>

Some engineers are great a screwing up a good product. And so are boards of directors.

I don't care about your long winded defense of those companies.

I care about what I've seen work, and what I've seen fail to work, over and over again. You cannot hide bad equipment and bad shooting habits beyond 400 yards.

When I've developed load for hundreds of rifles, and ran all of them out to 800 yards. I know what I see. Calculated data versus DOPE. I see tracking error. I see failure to return to zero.

I've go no axe to grind against any optic manufacturers. I just know the ones I have seen work correctly, repeatedly. And I know the ones I've seen give me, or the owner, trouble. I'm not working off a sample of less than 5 scopes, like you probably are. I am working off of samples (in some cases) over 100 units of the same manufacturers being a problem.

All the Sabre rattling and pushing of manufacturing statistics doesn't mean a damn thing when I see them fail on the rifle range, or on the hunt, many times.

If Vortex warranty was used as often as y'all say...makes me wonder how they stay in business?

As a Vortex homer...the best advice I can give you, if you buy cheap stuff...expect it to to be...well, cheap.

Show me a scope on the market that has an illuminated dot reticle with windage holds, is SFP, locking elevation turret, capped windage, 15x or bigger and less than 20oz...the Vortex Razor LHT doesn't count. There isn't anything on the market right now that compares that I have found and I've looked.

Maven gets an honorable mention with their new scope but it's FFP, heavy and no locking turret...so even it doesn't stack up.

NF is a great scope, I've owned them and I've sent them in for repair. They are for the guys who can tear up an anvil or an operator that a 15lb rifle doesn't bother them. Yes, I said it...it needed to be said.

Razor line of scopes is great. I love my Razor LHT 3-15x50. One of the few lightweight MIL/MIL scopes on the market.

I also have a PST Gen II on my .308 that I enjoy. My Diamondback binos have lasted me 12+ years with no issues. Granted, there is not much to break on 10x42 binos. I also have a Vortex rangefinder that had to get sent in due to inaccurate ranges, and Vortex sent me a brand new one back.

I've heard a lot of negative and positive reviews about Vortex. They are the most purchased rifle scope in the country so there will obviously be a lot of opinions on either side.

If I were in your shoes and I needed a hunting scope, I'd get the Razor LHT no questions asked. I love that scope and I've taken a lot of animals with it. It's served me well.

Hope it helps, good luck!

Take a look at the GPO CENTURI 3-18x44i. I got mine from Planet Optics for $525.00 It's 23.3 oz but meets the bulk of your criteria. It's a phenomenal scope! GPO is German Precision Optics founded by former Zeiss CEO

As I am reading this thread I am reminded of my own profession and it is eerily similar to the vortex vs high end optics debate.

Vortex is a company made for the average person who can not afford a zillion dollars worth of optics and desires a return on their money if something were to break on said optic. Lots and lots of average folk spend a "small fortune" on decent optics and are happy to do so because they can tell their wife they spent the extra 60-100 dollars over the binos their dad had and the thing is warranted for life, no matter what. Great deal right?

High end optics are far superior, are more for the niche market of discerning people and are not warranted very long at all. The folks that spend here sometimes will even look down on or laugh at the average folks having to "waste" their money on cheap optics.


So the answer to the question, does vortex sell anything worth buying is quite simple:

Are you the type of person who feels a value is gained by large scale mass production where mistakes will happen but cost is cheaper, or are you the type of person who wants to spend your hard earned money on quality, knowing the cost will be higher but the product will be better?

Who me

I really like my LHT but I’d take Maven over it durability wise 10 out of 10 times and would stake a high dollar tag or OIL backpack hunt on it. I would stake a high dollar tag on the LHT before any Luppy.

When you dig down into scope mfg’ing. The three most durable brands right now all come from same factory in Japan. It’s that simple. Maybe Leupold should hire CEO of light optical to fix their durability issues.

As you know,, at this point you can build a sub 6.5lb rifle pretty easy with out to much thought, in fact sub 6 ain’t hard either.

I was aware of that scope and GPO seems to be making some great stuff.

The main reason I replied...just like ATN, friends don't let friends by from Optics Planet. They SUCK and the worst offense...they show everything in stock and don't have it all.

So a Gen III Razor 6-36 that cost 3000.00 isn’t considered a high end optic? I do admit that the cost doesn’t make it high end just look at the old outdated designed Nightforce products that are overpriced basically 500-1000 dollars across their line of scopes but some consider that high end ?

Oh really!!! I’d like to see any of you guys get out of bed at 4:20PM, not eat a thing except 4 pieces of fried chicken, ride up to 200 yards in a Polaris( which wasn’t air conditioned and it was 73 degrees!!) get out and walk probably 20 yards with a 10lb pack on your back, climb up 10 steps in a rail less ladder, sit in a lounge chair, with a gun in a Bog Death Grip and honestly tell me you could kill a buck 70 yards away at the feeder; with a Vortex!! I dare you to try.

If it's FFP, it may all work out.

Lmao

^^^^^

Easy. The folks who tout the wonderful "lifetime, no fault warranty, unlimited" have failed to recognize they ALREADY paid for the replacement cost in the retail price of the item.

Vortex simply includes 'their' cost to replace the item in the retail cost to the consumer.

In order to do that (at the price point of the optic) they have to sacrifice quality to some extent.

I would rather pay more for an optic with better quality than to have an inferior product replaced (supposedly for free).

Vortex makes both cheap and decent quality scopes in their line up. But in either case....don't be duped by the warranty hype. You already paid for the replacement. Vortex is just hoping you won't need to use it...and most folks won't.

Personally, the one Vortex product I bought years ago (Viper PST) had to go back twice before I got one that is only 'OK'. Nothing about the warranty left me feeling warm and fuzzy. Not top tier optic in their line, but not a cheap version either.

I have only used the cheaper stuff from them but I have never had a single issue with the 10 or so scopes I have used. I’m a simple zero at 100 and set it and forget it. I will keep buying them when I need a scope, I also buy from Optics Planet and have never had a single issue, maybe I am just lucky.

I get how pricing works...here's my question. If you are the guy pricing these scopes and according to some posters...every Vortex scope breaks, then how many new scopes can you price into the initial cost? I don't care if you paid for 10 new scopes with the initial purchase. They still would eventually go under replacing scopes because they all break, right? Or you price it at 10 hoping folks just give up after 8?

The point is still valid regardless of pricing and markup...

They wouldn’t survive if their quality was that bad. Even if they had a 100% mark up like clothing. They still couldn’t do it.

Most people won’t use their products hard enough to test durability any ways, I doubt I ever buy another vortex scope, better tested durability out there

When these manufactures spec these products/scopes let say. Warranty/repair criteria are factored in the total cost of goods sold. Each gate they progress through, ie concept, design, materials, assemble packaging as well as shipping to name a few are all factored in. What's the criteria Vortex and other manufactures use is up to them to define. No product is designed with 100% cost replacement/repair in mind. The company's reputation would tank and shooters and hunters wouldn't use or purchase there products/scopes. Everyone here has there likes and dislikes on products. I'm not a Savage fan, doesn't mean they don't a quality product. One bad experience can sour the taste of a user and some will let everyone know the product is unreliable and sucks. Leupold, Vortex, Zeiss and Swarovski and others all have their place in the market and customer base. They didn't get to be leaders within this industry by designing bad/poorly designed products. Vortex caters to hunters on there low, mid range scopes. These hunters aren't going into the field to push the limits and abuse there equipment. They want a reliable scope that's going to perform as advertised. If something happens they want it repaired under warranty. High end hunts, competitors and military special forces have different criteria when it comes to their optics. Manufactures build the grunt specs into the higher end products. These are going to get abused and they have to take the abuse. When you watch a Marine Corp sniper instructor take off an old Unertl 10X or US Optics MST-100 replacement get taken off a rifle. The instructor drives a nail into a board with the scope. Remounts the scope and shoots for group. That's grunt proof.

For someone to say these manufactures can't produce any scope that wouldn't track as advertised is nonsense. Again, they wouldn't remain in business. Purchase what you like and pay what you feel is reasonable in your mind. If something happens you want the assurance it will be repaired under warranty or replaced if it's so old they don't make and have parts for them.

Nobody said they can't. The fact is in many cases they DON'T. Tell me all those many Leupold scopes I've had---like the ones that would move POI three inches when I gave it five clicks---were tracking properly. Tell me I did not see what I saw.

I have three Leupold's that work and track as they're supposed to. My longest shot with my VX-6 3-18X44mm was 1087 yards. My POI was 15" low. At that distance I'll take it! I guess my question is, you said, "Tell me all those many Leupold scopes I've had---like the ones that would move POI three inches when I gave it five clicks---were tracking properly. Tell me I did not see what I saw". Why did you continue to purchase Leupold scopes if they weren't working for you? Sounds silly to me to keep purchasing them when they all failed. You had to have liked something about them.

They have millions of customers who are completely satisfied with there scopes. They've got to be doing something right!

And there are a ton of customers that have absolutely had them fail at the wrong time. I had one fail last year, 10 miles in to the wilderness on last day of a hunt. I will only buy scopes that have been independently drop tested and passed.

Like I said about vortex most people won’t use a scope hard enough to find the failure point, but there is a segment that hunts outside just a Texas lease every year….

When leupold produces video of impact tests like Night force they will have my attention until then same boat as majority of vortex line, use with caution

Your 200 yard zero, and your 15" low at 1087 yards tells me you don't know what you're doing. And you don't know what good scope tracking really is.

As I stated earlier, I was willing to accept that negative trait because of what I perceived to be the positive characteristics.

When they sent out a couple of yahoos in flat-billed caps to tell the whole world there are no tracking problems with their scopes, I was done with the brand.

So, you have three Leupolds that track like they're supposed to (in YOUR perception), therefore all Leupolds track properly. Got it.

My buddy and I rented the Joshua Creek Ranch 1000 yard range last fall. They have steel targets at 400ish, 600ish & 800ish yards. The 1000 yard target ranged on our Sig Kilo range finders at 1087 yards. I forgot the exact distances but have them in my log book. We have a Garmin Xero doppler radar system. I use Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics program. We inputted all the variables, velocity, BC's, scope height & all the environmental. My scope tracked within a click +/- at 400, 600 & 800ish yards. Yeah it tracked according. At 1087 yards my POI from my POA was 15" low. I'll take it. There's a new 1430 yard range in Lipan Texas that has opened. We'll be joining it and shooting some really long distances this spring when he comes out to turkey hunt. We'll be recording everything we shoot there in our log books.

I just purchased a new GPO Centuri 3-18X44i scope last fall. My initial tests out at the ranch have been outstanding. The optics are great and seems to track as expected. I'll be testing that rifle out on my .300 WSM out to 1430 yards this spring. Should be fun. Yes, I'm very happy with Leupold scopes. My boys have Vortex on there hunting rifles. They're the simple hunter, Go to there stand and shoot a hog or deer. Usually within 150 yards +/-. They work great for them. One just moved from his Vortex 1-6 to a Vortex 4-24 Strike Eagle as he wanted more magnification. They'll never touch the turrets except to sight in. We do shoot a lot out here. They've maintained there POA/POI for all the years we've shot them. We're not constantly redoing zero's.

I was a Leupold fanboy until I tried to dial. One (VX-5) was close to right. The other (Mk-5) would start drifting shot after shot. I bought the Mk-5 thinking I was stepping up from the old SS 5-20, and it was in glass, but it sure taught me a lesson. I did hunt this past week with an old Vari-X II gloss. Set and forget, it does the job.

I've been in and out from chasing sandhills muleys and haven't read the whole thread. Can someone tell me which side is winning this argument?

I am losing the argument because when I thought most of my Vari-X IIs, Vari-X IIIs, VX-IIs, VX-IIIs, and VX-3s had wonky adjustments that did not work as intended, I just didn't know what I was doing. An optical engineer says so.

LOL!

I don’t know but I wish this would be pinned up top somewhere so they don’t feel the need to argue of the same chit every month.

If someone could find out which company is most profitable, maybe we'll know. That's where the real game is won. Not the game I play, but as Jerry Jones once said, "Money's what makes the monkey dance". Like Vortex, he has a bottom tier product but is killing it when it comes to raking in $.

I’ve never used a NF, do y’all think all models are better than average ?

You if you post up a 30” with 10” back forks

I’ve been in Lanai at the pool all day

There are pluses and minus’s to all 4 NF lines/series, durability is close to the same across the lines .

NF, March, Trijcon and Maven R1.2 have all done well in drop tests consistently

I use to like them a lot, but they just lost their edge and value dropped. Kind of like leupold in 90’s

The initial viper and razor lines were made by LO, just like NF, Trijicon, Bushnell LHST , and where price point leaders. Company got big, change MFG faculties around and got less competitive. I do think they still have value in upper end bino’s and spotters but I think they are no longer price point leaders. They are now Luppy 2.0 with a better spotter line

Brought up inches again...

1 MOA at 1087 yards is 11.38", at the target.

A miss by "15" low" is a miss by 1.32 MOA

That is a big miss. And it is unacceptable poor tracking.

When the Heat Stoke Open ran for years, just outside Camargo, OK. There were many stages beyond 800 yards. One was called "One MOA". It started at 800 yards, and stopped at 1200 yards. A 1.32 MOA miss mow would have generated other shooters as well as fellow competitors making mention to the guy missing that low. It's a big miss.

If I missed with an SS 5-20X, a Bushnell 3.5-21X ERS, or a NF ATACR 5-25X, it was a left to right miss, which is the wrong wind hold, which is not the fault of the scope. It was my fault.

If I have the faintest understanding of angular measurement, that is five clicks of SUCK.

Friend killed one other day like that from Panhandle scored 190.

I did an independent drop test on my Trijicon Ten Mile Hx mounted on my day time 22 Creedmoor last week…..it failed. Dropped it from about 18 inches on a hardwood floor and it was off 4 inches left and 2 inches low. Re- Zeroed it and next day killed 11 coyotes.
Checked it today for tomorrows hunt all is still good 👍

Ha, no worse feeling and it suxs when that happens. Was it rings or scope?

Right before this years sheep hunt I was practicing shooting out to 700, and to get over 600 I had to get more elevation so decided to climb on top of my mule pro roof. Long story short after shooting, I fell off and dropped a NF NXS8 7’ from roof of a mule directly one to a rocky tank dam as I fell. I about [censored] my pants, I crawled off the ground looked at my rifle cried and then checked zero and it was dead on. scope cap was scratched pretty good though.


The Leupold that quit me on my last bear hunt never fell but was in saddle scabbard for a bunch of miles. Leupold sent me a new one. It’s my daughter’s gun so I replaced it with 2.5-10 NF.

Someone needs to up their inch pounds.

You are correct. Come up 5, reshoot. If it's still a 1/4 low, come up again.

I was after this one.......never saw him again.....



My son got this nice buck though.......Tikka CTR 260/130 AB's

Yeah, but does it have a Vortex scope?

Here it comes........it's yet another scope that the internet will tell you sucks......a 3-15x Tract Toric. It's been bombproof for 7 years.

Two beautiful deer Jgr!

The thing I hate about the “independent” drop test is it’s a sample of 1. Bottom line is if you drop a scope, you better check it…I don’t care who makes it.

I dropped an old vx2 off a shooting bench on concrete, scratched the hell out of it. Shot it and it was off…rezeroed and shot it a full year with no ill effects.

I have a Tract Toric UHD 4.5-30x56 ELR. Almost unused because the rifle it's on is having problems. I think I'll like the scope despite it being the wrong one for the rifle and shooting distance. The scope is way too much and too big. Other than that it checked all my boxes.

That a boy!! Suxs that’s 190 plus frame,

I’m jealous, I was supposed to be in NM chasing tail end of rut with bow, but wife snuck a family trip in…. Unfortunately it’s her entire family

Think a lot of rings fail/slip and scope gets blamed.

They have been drop testing each shipment of the Maven, I think I’ve seen 4 or 5 now. But it would be insanity not to check zero on a bad drop, and there is a drop point that all scopes will fail.

Over the years, I’ve only had two significant ‘drop’ tests. The first one had the rifle strapped to me. The ladder stand broke and I fell backwards for a couple of feet and landed on my Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14 and my beloved Sako 270, landing on rocks. That hurt. Scope was fine. The other time was when I was off to coyote hunt. I had to open a gate, so I left my 220 and Leupold 6.5-20 leaning on the seat. The Kubota vibration caused the rifle to slip and fall. Made quite a clatter. The scope zero was knocked off pretty bad. Yes, the gun was not loaded.

Most of my scopes are Leupold, with a Burris or two, a Vortex PST-1, and a couple of Athlons. I’m not a turret twister. Don’t need it for what I do. But, if I was gonna spend big bucks and hunt hard in hard places, I’d probably upgrade to something indestructible. Maybe even with turrets.

Jgr, great bucks. Especially the live one. Wow.

603 this is a good point, on my blind hunting gun- which I use 95% of the time I also use a Leupold. I never have to use anything but zoom. 100 yard shot almost always. For this application I still like Leupold.