OK guys, I have been bow hunting on and off for several years-I get excited about early season hunts and LOVE being 10-30 yards from deer but over the years my success has been "spotty"-A few deer I have shot I either watched or heard them crash with in 50 yards of the shot. Others I have had to track and some I have found, others I have lost-All the ones i have had to track there has been maybe spotty blood or no blood at all-It's just been going to the last spot they were seen and start making circles or travel down known trails or try and get up on hills and glass the draws looking for the white belly. When I know I hit a deer and can't find it I get very frustrated and put the archery down for a year or two, only to get the itch once again!

Anyway, Wednesday had a couple of bucks come in on my archey stand and I was fortunate enough to get a good shot on the biggest buck we had on camera this year-It was 5 minutes before dark and I put an arrow in what I thought was proper shot placement. Deer bucked and jumped and I heard the arrow hit. I then watched him walk off, tail flicking and head down like he was hit good-even watched him bed down about 50 yards away but then it got too dark to see him. So I sat in my tripod another hour before getting down to go look for him. Started at the place he was standing when i shot-no blood and I could not find my arrow-walked the path he did-no blood right up to where he stood a minute and there was a generous amount of bright red blood 5 feet from where he bedded-and there was a decent amount of blood in the bed, but no deer. There was a bit of a blood trail for about 10 yards and another bed with a smaller amount blood-no deer-and beyond that there was no blood to be found. I spent the next 2 hours circling with no sign of blood, hair or my deer so i back out for the night-

Next morning I start the search from the point of the last bed/blood and start my normal "get some elevation and see what i can see". I also start heading to the nearest water source thinking maybe he headed that way-about 45 minutes into the morning search from the top of a hill I see his white belly at the base of a tree-nearly 400 yards from where he was shot!


So I was super pumped about finding him, but also perplexed about how far he went and needed to see if I am doing something wrong-and since this is not an isolated experience for me, as I have lost some deer in the past as well as needed to do an extensive search for deer I know I hit. If this was just a one time deal I'd chalk it up to this guy being a tough deer and it just happens sometimes. But of the deer I have hit that needed extensive efforts to recover, the circumstances are all similar-shot placement I thought that was pretty good (behind the shoulder, broadside or slight quartering away,), little or no blood trail, and the animal traveling several hundered yards before expiring.

-in the pics, the first pics shows entrance and last pic is exit- using 100 grn thunderheads I am wondering if I need a broad head with a larger cutting diameter? Maybe a larger cutting surface would result in a better blood trail and a faster end result for the animal. Or do I need better shot placement? I am thinking a lower point of entry would have a better chance at hitting the heart resulting in less need to track?

In the past I have also used 100 grn slick tricks with the same results, little or no blood trail and long distance searches or lost animals and massive levels of frustration!


So, is this just normal for archery hunting or am I doing something wrong?

closer pic of the entry and a pic of his head gear

First congratulations; good job on recovery. That placement appears to go through a cavitation area; missing the lungs and heart. I would go with 1.25” minimum cut broadhead, and place your shot behind the shoulder. 3 inches behind always better than 3 inches in front of the shoulder. Getting his lungs key to a short recovery.
Passing through a lung, and anchoring into the opposing front leg/shoulder when the angle is right can drop them in their tracks.

Im not experienced enough at archery to comment in detail before letting others. Maybe I’ll chime in more later. I will say that I think this scenario is much more common than most archers will admit. It happens a lot with people I know. I think you have to be really really good and then sometimes lucky to have a real high recovery rate with archery(absolutely I’ll get bashed for that comment.) Unless you are a real pro that’s very experienced you need a good dog handy.
I want to compliment you on several things. Good for you to admit you dont know it all. Good for you for asking for help. Good for you for even caring about high recovery rates. Good for you for looking so hard for these deer. Great of you for visually spotting a dead deer at 400 yards!!!!!!!!! This topic is my pet peeve so I hope some guys can shed some light. Shot placement is higher and more forward than ideal but he did die and with a deer able to move before the arrow gets there you have to assume you wont always hit where you aim.

I am by no means an expert but I have shot quite a few deer with arrows and I would never place a shot where you hit him. Anatomically, that area is a bad zone to hit since the chances of a double lung are very low and with a slightly quartering away shot, the exit is well in front of the shoulder where there are no vitals at all. I am sure you hit some vessels and caused him to bleed away slowly, but you need to re-adjust your target so you can reliably hit double lung more consistently.

When bow hunting, I always try for a double lung, with the aim point in the opposite lung where the arrow will exit. Do NOT aim for the entry, you always have to think of the exit wound as the kill wound. If that means hitting back on the entry and tagging a little guts, to ensure you hit solid lung on the opposite side, then so be it. The anatomy of the deer lungs is that they essentially a pyramid that has its apex at the shoulder and the base at the diaphragm. So the largest chance of hitting lung in not at the shoulder, but behind the shoulder about 12 inches back from the shoulder. I don't target that far back, but I want the opposite side shot to exit about 3-4 inches behind the shoulder.

Look at some cut aways of deer anatomy and study those from all angles. There are some good videos out there too which demonstrate the concepts. I will try to find some and link them here for you.



Anyway, good job on being persistent and not giving up. I am super happy for you that you found this guy. Good job and pat yourself on the back for that! I do not want to sound condescending at all about this story. I agree with FR, I think this happens a lot more than people will admit.

Congrats on the nice buck!! And good job tracking. (I also use a hand held thermal monocular to help see down deer/pigs on our place. We've recovered many using it.)

IMO, it looks like you are a touch too far forward. When shooting archery, I try to think in 3 dimensions and the arrow path. Your arrow path shows he was slightly quartered away from you. This would mean I would shoot further back on the deer to get the arrow to pass through the center vital area. The exit of the arrow would be further back on the deer, and the entrance would be further back also. Think 3 dimensions on arrow path and it will help with shot placement.

Take a look at this thread. I have detailed where I shoot and aim for archery.

https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/9119195/re-ranging-strategy#Post9119195

I got no advice for you, seems like you would know better than me. Congrats on killing a nice buck though, nice work recovering him.

Shot was too high and too far forward. Probably nicked an artery and took him awhile to bleed out internally.

Even well shot deer won’t always bleed, but 98% of them die very quickly. Tissue can plug up a hole even with a large broadhead.

Always aim for the exit and not the entrance. If you’re shooting a stouter bow I prefer mechanical, but nothing at all wrong with a thunderhead 100 or a slick trick. Both are proven heads.

In this case it was a result of less than ideal shot placement, but congratulations, he is a hell of a buck! I’m the real world, things happen. You found the deer and you should be proud!

With a compound, if you are proficient with your weapon, your recovery rate should be just as high as with a rifle.

I’ve lost two deer, both due to poor shot placement, both too far forward. It’s not something that’s common

I have been bowhunting for 38 years and have learned a lot from my mistakes. I now hunt with a crossbow using rage mechanical broadheads. I'll sit about 12 feet above ground and shoot about tweny yards to my feeder. I ALWAYS make sure that the deer is perpendicular to me (exactly sideways.) I wanted my mechanical broadhead to only hit ribs behind both shoulders and take out both lungs. I won't shoot unless this shot presents itself. The deer run an average of 50 yards and that's it! Always LOTS of blood and easy tracking.

One point to drive home is on whitetail, the closer the better ( to a point ). A 15-17 yard shot is almost always money. 20 is ok, but past 22 things get more iffy with every yard. I’ve killed them at 30 but really prefer a 20 and under shot.

Congrats on your buck. You completely missed the vitals but must have got a vein. Your aim point needs to be about the center of the handle of your knife. Learn exactly where the lungs are and aim for the center of it. I like fixed broadheads for hogs or thicker skinned animals. But the blood trails suck. I'd recommend a good expandable. Gives you a better margin of error and massive blood trails.

As stated, shot was too far forward. A few here have said to aim for the exit. I aim for a point in the middle of the deer's body. Find a cutaway pic of a deer's vitals. I try to hit the very top of the heart. A little low, and you've got straight heart. A little high, and you've got double lung. So far, I've only lost 2 deer that I'vehit, and both were admittedly terrible shots.

For a quartering away shot, I'd be aiming here.

Some examples of ideal shot placement

no sir! I felt like your reply was poilte and educational-in no way condescending! I appreicate the input!

OK guys, I really do appreciate the input and the kind words! I will adjust my shot placement and might look into a thermal monocular as well as mechanical broad heads.

Thank you again to everyone for the time and education! It is appreciated!!

Not every shot is gonna be perfect. Recovery is the key, in which case you were able to make. Ive made some horrid shots that I was able to recover.

Hunting is not an exact science and not every shot and execution is going to be perfect. Best you can do is mitigate the risk of a less than desirable shot.

You won't get the same consensus on mechanical vs fixed as you will on shot placement. Personally, I prefer a fixed blade like a muzzy or montec. Fixed blades never fail to open. Others will disagree with me, but I've had great performance with fixed blades.

Like most everything else in life, there are tradeoffs.

Fixed blades are pretty much fool proof and account for a lot of game. They are also more finicky to tune, are prone to wind planing and are typically louder in flight.

Mechanicals ( both over the top designs and rear deploy) usually offer a significantly larger cutting diameter, are more accurate and require little to no tuning. Some downsides are they can ( though I haven’t seen one in a long, long time ) fail to open and take more Kinetic energy to penetrate than a fixed blade. I prefer the over the top designs like the wasp and the grim reaper. Large entrance and exit holes. They are typically a one and done head although some can be reused. I hunt in an area with a lot of rock so even a fixed head is usually a one and done affair.

But, regardless of the head used, shot placement has to be there. A well placed field point will kill a deer.

All I'm going to say is that 400yds isn't unheard of, especially for a big, tough deer. My advice would be to give them a little more time, especially if you don't actually see them tip over and die. I know this because literally two days ago I had a good shot on a doe, hopped down after 45 minutes, and followed a solid blood trail for 500yds before I bumped her off a bed. Never found her. That was a tough lesson for me to learn, but I'm going to give at least 1.5-2hrs if I don't see a dead deer from my stand or hear some violent thrashing in the brush.

I dont disagree with anything you said but Ill use your post to expand on something. What you described was a deer that likely was not hit real good.
What really helps with how to go about a track is to video the shot. With cell phones these days its really easy to do. None of us on our lease dream of shooting an important animal without doing all thats practical to video. Knowing where it was hit tells you a lot about what to do next and when to do it.

400 yards is a long way for an animal to run. A deer that is double lunged has a hard time going more than 100 or so yards. Even a liver shot deer usually will bed up fairly quick.

I don’t video my shots on deer, have no desire too, but I’ve learned that where you think the arrow hit and where it actually hit is often in two different spots.

If a deer was shot and went 400 yards and you bumped it, it was not shot in the vitals.

That said, they can thrash around for a long time. Doe I shot the other day crashed around for about 5 min. She only went 40 yards but she made a racket for a lot longer than I expected considering the shot.

First congrats on a great buck.

As far as your shot, you got too far forward and maybe got one lung. If your exit was 3-4” back you would have got both lungs. But you found you buck, so don’t stress about it. Shot for an exit behind back leg not in front.

A larger cutting diameter broad helps gives you a 1/2” -3/4 tolerance left to right or up and down. In this case I don’t think you would have seen a big difference. If you want to try expandables, there are some good hybrids on the market https://evolutionoutdoors.com/products/hyde Or grim reaper hybrid.

Congrats again on great deer

I agree it’s a long way, but it’s 100% possible. The amount and type of blood I was seeing in my situation told me that it definitely cut vitals to some degree—although to your point, it probably wasn’t as good of a shot as I thought. And that’s my point—a shot that seems “perfect” may not necessarily be, so when in doubt, give it more time. At least, that’s what I’m going to do after my situation.

I agree that my hit was not as good as I thought it was. What’s your process for videoing with a phone? Do you strap it to your chest or something? I can’t bring myself to wear a GoPro, but I would love to see where my shots hit.

You were very close to perfect shot, if that exit was 3-4” further back you would have had a better blood trail and both lungs. Exit Just behind offside leg and Regardless congrats on a great buck!!!! Looks like one lung or upper heart area and the exit is all muscle(that’s you bad blood trail)

Larger cutting diameter Broadhead gives you a 1/2 to 1” lead way, that lead way may be vertical or horizontal. I like the new hybrids. Evolution archery and Grim reaper make great hybrids, but regardless you recovered him, and great buck. Congrats again

There are lots of "clamps" designed to hold phones that can be adjusted. What I use has a ton of adjustment which wouldnt always be needed. Its only $15 and I saw one just like it for $3. Some are a lot smaller and less bulky. Just google "gooseneck phone holder."
We often hunt out of enclosed blinds that have sturdy window frames to clamp to. Even in a tree the one like mine could attach to a limb. If in a popup you could get a cheap camera tripod and attach to that.
Downside to video is its one more thing to worry about and maybe go wrong or be a distraction. Jacking with a phone instead of focusing on the shot could be a problem. To me the upside to knowing where you hit is worth any downside. Practicing with the video is important just like any other thing you practice thats important.

TxTro, it seems you are admitting that where you aim and where you hit and where you think you hit are sometimes at 3 completely different places. And yet you "have no desire to video my shots". I have no issue with a person not wanting to video their shots but surely you will admit it can aid in recovering the deer. You seem to be a respected bow hunter on here so try to help me out with educating the less experienced.

What I’m saying is where you think you see the arrow hitting and where it actually hits can be different. I’ve shot some deer and thought “wow that didn’t look right” and when I get to the animal find out the shot was where I was aiming. The opposite can also happen of course.

If a person wants to video their shot, more power to them, it’s not gonna hurt anything if the phone or camera is attached to the riser.

I just personally don’t want to do it, nor am I gonna recommend to others they do it, as I believe we need less crutches and technology in the field, not more.

Generally speaking, I hear ya on the tech and "crutches". Especially as it pertains to prior to the shot. But once the shot is made I dont have many qualms about doing whatever helps to recover the animal.
My feelings may be skewed because we hunt real big deer, pay a lot to do it, put a whole lot of work in, and sometimes go years between shots. Once we do shoot, all hunters and LO expect a max effort to recover the animal which includes video.

I think it goes without saying that everyone should give a max effort to recover the animal regardless of size. I hunt real big animals too and spend a lot of money doing it. I have never felt that a video of me shooting the animal was something that was necessary.

I’ve had other guys video my shots and I think it’s cool and fun to play back later. But I don’t think it’s a “must do” or a vital component to recovery. If anything it’s a technological novelty.

I think videos are cool, too. But you’re asking too much of the average hunter, especially a solo hunter, to record the shot. I have tried to record a couple of hunts. I ain’t there yet. My last couple hunts, i turned off my phone. “Screw that. I’m hunting.”

I've never got set up for videoing my hunts. Would be cool for reviewing were you hit. But what I have done is become an expert level tracker using the clues you get from each shot. Learning how to read a blood trail, reaction of the deer, distance traveled and arrow to know where the deer was hit and how to proceed. Many of these lessons were learned the hard way from mistakes. Knowing when to keep tracking and when to back out is very important.

My best days are with no electronic technology to speak off except the LRF. Turn that phone off and forget about it. Don’t worry about making videos. There is so much happening in the woods that I miss when I pull that phone out. Even just to take a picture or record a short video. 99% of the time that I pull that darn thing out, I get busted by a wheezing deer that I can’t even see. Forget that.

If I hunted with a buddy and we filmed each other, that would change everything.

I will add simply that lighted nocks are the best tool for an archery hunter to know where their arrow hits a deer with definitive proof while sitting in the stand.

Hard to argue where the arrow went when you see the lighted trail go into the deer and most of the time out on the other side in the ground.

I have 100% certainty where my bolts hit a deer, pig, etc, based on the lighted nock. A very inexpensive investment that saves a lot stress for me.