We're two weeks into the season, and I've already whiffed on two deer for the same reason—misjudging the range. My normal strategy is to get in a tree and range trees around me as a reference, but in the moment, apparently it's easy for me to forget the exact yardage. Luckily, both misses were clean—and I was able to get a second shot on one and made a successful shot—but I feel like I need to change things up. I'm curious to hear how many of y'all range your target in real time or how many range objects beforehand? Do I simply need to get better at estimating ranges? I hunt public land from a saddle, so I don't have a feeder or anything and am generally moving around quite a bit from day to day.

I range objects to use as a reference. Sometimes I’ll range an animal to re-confirm before I draw but not always.

When you get elevated it makes animals seem further than they really are.

A deer at 20 yards when your 12’ up in a tree looks different than a 200 at 20 yards when you are on the ground.

What txtrophy said. I'll add that many times a deer will duck the string. You may not notice this in the moment. If you are shooting long that may be the issue. If you're shooting short from a tree it could be your form. I tend to shoot low from an elevated position if I don/t concentrate. So, it may be distance and it may be some other factor. Did you miss low or high? What did you think the range was and what was it really? Those are the questions I would answer to get an idea of what is going on.

Well, I missed low and high haha. On the high shot, it was 100% me misremembering the yardage. I thought it was 38yds, but it was actually 32yds, so I aimed a bit high with my 30yd pin and she ducked the string by a solid 6". For the low shot, I think it was a combination. I used the 20yd pin and I think it was more like 24-25yds, and it went low. What typically goes wrong with form to shoot low from an elevated position?

From a stand, I always range objects in advance. Spot and stalk, I will range in real time.

What kind of bow are you shooting?

A 24 yard shot on a 20 yard pin hold should still be money

At my stand, I have known objects in my hunting area that I know exactly how far they are. I use a stump, a rock, a bush, and multiple trees for knowing my distances. My feeder is right at 52 yards away from me, but I try to ambush them coming in. I'll only shoot that far for pigs, but the deer (bucks) usually come in closer and circle or come in at an angle to the feeder and makes their shot much closer.

3 years ago I killed a nice 10 point at 32 yards. He was standing right past my rock pile, which was 30 yards. I used my 30 yard pin, made a good aim, and sent the arrow. I also aim bottom third, or right in the arm pocket. Almost always a deer will jump the string. So if you aim half way up in the middle, you can easily shoot over the back when they jump the string.

If you see in this picture, I hit this buck half way up. It clipped part of his heart. I aimed about 4"-6" lower than where I hit him. If I were to aim where the arrow hit him, I would have missed, or would have clipped the top of his back. (And yes, I know I shoot an old Mathews!)

^^^
That’s a nice buck

I won’t address your specific question because I feel it’s irrelevant if you are shooting a deer at 32 to 38 yards. They easily have time to drop before the arrow gets there. It will NOT MATTER how accurate you range or how accurate you shoot. I would recommend aiming somewhat low(almost everyone agrees) on shots at “reasonable” ranges but aiming low at 38 yards the deer will often drop enough that that’s not enough and there’s no way to know how much, if any, they will drop.
Some may disagree and I don’t care.

What happens when the deer doesent drop at all?

At 35 yards the deer can drop a significant amount, but they often times don’t.

Hard to calculate what the OP should be doing without knowing his arrow speed. What works for one set up won’t work for another.

My bow I never aim low at 20 yards and maybe only slightly at 30. I’d rather spine them than shoot them in the brisket.

Watch a bunch of videos on YouTube and slow them down. Deer often react at the shot but it’s not enough movement to cause a bad hit in majority of cases at normal ranges.

Well, it's a little relevant if you pick the wrong one like I did...

So you're saying only shoot within 30yds?

A really nice buck!

I'm shooting a Bowtech SS. It was user error, not bow error. Essentially, because the last time I missed over the deer when it jumped the string, I decided to shoot low, which was a mistake at 25yds. She didn't drop, so the arrow pretty much went right where it should've—right under her.

Don't know your arrow speed, but it's been my experience that a bow shooting at 280 fps +, at deer can't get out of the way at 20 yards. 30, they can move a little bit (but usually they don't move enough to matter) and farther than that I usually refrain from taking a shot on a whitetail.

This is spot on. Get an LRF. Use the LRF to judge the distance on the range, use the same one to hunt. Laser every tree, stump, limb, etc until you have a solid idea within + or - 2 or 3 yards, keep the range inside of where 2-3 yard errors are still inside a softball. Get a el cheapo LRF from Bass Pro like $100 or less to get started. That is what I have. I get by on it.

Yes and no. Im saying hardly anyone should shoot a whitetail deer at more than about "25" yards and that does depend on some factors.
I know you picked the wrong yardage and obviously that has to be fixed.
You can discount my opinion because I am not a real experienced bow hunter. However Im not stupid and I research a lot. A very good friend of mine is an experience bow hunter as well as an avid photographer. He has done a lot of videos himself where he did some serious calculation's about arrow speed based on video frames per second as well as supposed and measured arrow speed.
His conclusion, which I chose to believe till shown otherwise, is that "most" compound bows dont shoot fast enough(even if shot exactly where you want) to allow for the deer dropping or not dropping without careful consideration of the shot distance.
For high reliability you have to aim low enough so that if they DONT drop then you will still hit the vitals. At the same time, for high reliability kills, you have to assume they may drop A LOT. If they drop a lot(often do which Ive seen over and over again in videos) then he says around 25 yards and in is the magic number. 30 yards plus they CAN absolutely drop enough that your PERFECTLY shot arrow will be out of the vitals high. Maybe a clean miss or maybe the deer recovers, but out of the vital zone none the less. I dont claim to know anything with certainty and Im open to be proven wrong.
Anybody thats watched videos should agree that a deer ABSOLUTELY can drop further than the vertical kill zone.
**The only question that remains is HOW CLOSE do you need to be, considering the speed of the arrow, to insure the arrow arrives before the vitals are too low.**
Each persons distance may vary but its only math and every ethical hunter should try to do that math, IMO. My friend says 25 yards for him and it sounds good to me.
In case anyone is still following, Ill add that they can also TURN very quickly so its not just the drop. Ive personally seen a deer shot facing one way and the arrow entered on the other side cause he had enough time to turn that far.

Definitely didn’t mean to imply you’re stupid! I think you make a good point that I’ve never really considered. I know ‘drop’ is a factor, but I didn’t think it was much of a factor at 30yds. It’s definitely something to look into.

Personally, if I knew 100% the exact yardage, I’d shoot up to 30-35yds. My issue has been getting a reliable yardage in the few seconds before a shot opportunity presents itself.

Another thing to consider is the deer's head position when you shoot. Many hunters will wait until their head is down and they are feeding, thinking that they will have a slower reaction time this way. That is wrong thinking. I used to think that way, but, I was wrong. They can not drop their body near as fast if their head is up vs. if their head is down. If I have ranged and am sure of distance, I am comfortable out to 50 yards if the head is up. With the head down, your 25 yard distance might even be too far.

Not the best video that I have seen on the subject, but, it's the one that I could easily find.

I did not think you were implying I was stupid. My comment about stupid came after I had just admitted to not being real experienced with a bow so I didnt want readers to completely discount what else I was saying. Most of the time when I post Im not speaking directly to the OP but to anyone else that may be listening. Your original question was a good one and Im glad you asked it.
That video unclebubba posted was great.

You’re not gonna get a good range on a deer and stick him without a partner to range for you. You get ranges to objects and go from there. I shoot 30 yards on one pin. If i followed the current trend of heavy high FOC. I’d be shooting a lot closer.

I think you should check out Kifarucast with Aron Snyder. He routinely takes long shots on game but not on whitetails in the Southeast. He claims a deer covered 7 feet before the arrow got there on a 40 someodd yard shot if I recall.

It depends on your deer, your terrain, and hunting pressure.

Thanks guys!!

If you look at this diagram, my aiming point for any whitetail with a bow is right at the bottom right part of the heart. It is in the that small pocket of the shoulder where the red and the pink of the lung meet low right in this picture. If your deer doesn't jump the string, then it's still a kill shot low in the heart. I have shot a few does like this where they didn't jump the string. Also, when you hit lower, you have a better blood trail. The buck I shot (pictured above) did not leave hardly any blood trail. I hit him in the middle front of the chest cavity, and all the blood stays inside. A low hit helps bleed out better and leave a better trail to follow, if needed. I watched this buck stumble right before he crashed down just outside my view. I think he went 30-40 yards. Lung hits will always go further than a heart shot. My preferred organ to hit is the heart for a quicker kill, so that's my aiming spot.

If you aim about center where the liver line is and the deer jumps the string, you WILL hit high and impact the top spine area. I have seen this work also. A buddy paralyzed a deer like this, and we had to finish her off. He aimed middle. It's just not where I aim. Also, think 3 dimensional on where the organs are. The deer may be turned or angled enough and you have to account for the aiming spot shift some.

Archery hunting is a very skilled game. You have to practice and make the shot count when it's there while battling buck fever. I totally got buck fever when I was shooting this buck. There's not many things anymore that will give me the adrenaline dump anymore. But shooting a nice buck with a bow certainly will (and driving a C8 on a road racing course!).

I will routinely get a range on my crossbow shots prior to shooting, I want to make sure of the yardage. However, I know the approximate yardages at my stand set ups and always verify that yardage mark when I first can while in the stand.

I realize crossbow is not the same as compound bow. Different beast and acts differently, so for bow hunting, my experience does not apply apples to apples. I get that.

Having said that, even with a crossbow, I will not shoot at a deer much past 35 yards, and prefer them inside 25. Only time I will take a shot around 35 or longer is if they are head in a feeder and not able to see the bolt coming at them. I am not popping b9olts at a moving 35 yard target either. I would rather wait for the shot and not get a shot than make a bad wounding shot.

I made the mistake a couple seasons ago of forgetting my rangefinder when I took my wife with me to hunt one day. I had my target buck sitting at what I thought was 35 yards, perfectly broadside, but did not take the shot because I was not for sure it was that range. He was beyond my feeder some, about 5 yards I estimated, and I know that feeder is 30. Had he come around my side of the feeder he would have been dead. But I wasn't going to risk that shot since I didn't know for sure. Never got another chance at him. Nice double main beam buck. Don't regret the actions of the hunt, totally regret the forgetting rangefinder part. Still not sure I would have tried had he been 35 yards. Probably would have waited for him to circle back around to me.

There is some good wisdom in this thread. Some good experience, and what sounds like some lucky experience as well. It is up to you as the hunter to determine what works best for you and what limits you put on yourself for an ethical opportunity on the deer.

Having said all that, I know different animals are different, and this discussion applies only to WT deer. It may apply equally to other animals, but we are talking about WT deer alone in this thread. Keeping apples to apples as much as possible (I know, I know, xbow people don't have a say in compound bow discussions)

I only take issue with your one statement highlighted above...

I have done the math and the deer shot in the heart can still go a long ways if the lungs are still oxygenating the blood. Think of it this way, the heart is simply a pump, and the leaking pump will allow blood to circulate for a while before the system runs out of blood. Once blood stops being pumped, the brain will still be active for at least 5-7 seconds until complete brain shut down. So, how long does a heart take to bleed out from a arrow wound? Could be 10-15-30 seconds, maybe quite a bit longer if just a small slice. There is a lot of blood to leak out. I have seen pigs stabbed in the heart (knife or scalpel, have seen both) bleed out over a minute and they would have been able to run almost that whole time. The one I stabbed in the heart bled out over about a 45-60 second period and it was fighting the dogs the whole time. The ones I have seen with scalpel cuts into the heart (probably a better approximation of an arrow wound) bled out over several minutes and had survivable vital signs up until the very end, meaning blood pressure and oxygen saturation.

Now, think of blood oxygenation and lung function. If you take out both lungs, they deflate pretty quickly, within 2-3 breaths you are already significantly reducing blood oxygenation. It may take 15-20 seconds before all oxygenation is stopped and then drop goes the deer.

How fast can a deer run? up to 30mph. Over 30 seconds, that means it can cover 400 or so yards. The action that stops oxygenation the fastest is the better killer, and that would be hitting both lungs and the heart or major arteries.

If you have a choice, with a bow, go for the double lung shot. Different discussion for rifle hunting since hydrostatic forces come into play much more than with arrows

Heart shot deer always run further if no lungs were hit.

Deer hit in the lungs with a broadhead die very quickly.

I've seen plenty of heart shot deer go 100+ yards


Most lung shot deer die within 50 yards or so unless shot in wide open country.

Doe I shot on Friday didn't make it 40 yards before expiring.


Lower 3rd lung shot....quick death and usually a very good blood trail.

top of the heart lower lungs is my go to. this stag went 60 yrds dropped over dead. I have had low heart shots that elk and nilgai went 100/200 yrds with a hit to the low heart. Nilgai i have had high lung shots that were never recovered.