I'll probably stir up a hornets nest here, but my personal experience is that you really don't have to clean quality barrels that the bore was honed to a mirror finish prior to button rifling. Here's some 5 shot groups I shot over the past week from 100yds out of NULA 300 HAM'R rifles (Lehigh Defense bullets) that have had 500 rounds + through them since cleaning. One of the rifles has NEVER had the bore cleaned and it's got well over 1000 rounds through it!!! I've shot some 3 shot groups as small as .20" and this is with 3-9x40 hunting scopes on the rifles. All rifles have suppressors on them.

Yup!

Don't clean the bore until it tells you it needs it. It can tell you on 100 yard paper, or distant steel. "Unexplained misses" means it needs to be cleaned. If it isn't missing, don't clean it.

Good advice from two that know

So would you run a cloth patch through just to wipe away the fouling, or leave it be. 40+ years of shooting
mostly Black Powder has given me some good/bad habits ???

I subscribe to the don’t clean it till it needs it thought. On a few guns I know I don’t shoot often I will run a well lubed patch before storage and will shoot again before I count on them for anything.

Is there a way to know the Ra prior to rifling your barrels? I would assume the surface finish being what it is doesn't allow foulings or residue to adhere to the bore. It would be interesting to know the difference in surface finish of your barrels and those that are hammer forged, like Tikka barrels. Your people do make great barrels.

I'm a big Tikka fan and have several. While I don't shoot them nearly as much as my WC .223, 300 HAM'R and .308 guns I've not noticed any accuracy degradation after shooting them quite a bit. I think barrels that foul and require cleaning to maintain top accuracy just have rough bores. Based on our experience making barrels the smoothest bore can be produced by the button rifling process. Keep in mind that barrels are made to "price point" and the two primary places corners are cut is bore honing and stress relieving. Skipping the stress relieving often results in larger group size and POI shift as the barrel heats up, especially with light profile barrels. A less expensive barrel that will shoot OK can be made by just gun drilling and rifling, but the bore just won't be as smooth. If stress relieving is also skipped the barrel probably won't behave well as it heats up, but will probably still shoot good 3 shot groups. Putting the rifling in puts a lot of stress on the barrel blank!

The PH I hunted with in South Africa had me using his Ruger Hawkeye 300 Win Mag. He said it had 2500 rounds through it (he said 3000 after I left…) I asked how often he cleaned it and he said every 1000 rounds. It shot under an inch at 100 twice at the range while we were using it.

I have three Tikka's, all great shooters. I am starting to notice some accuracy degradation in my oldest, a CTR, 20" in .308. It has been a fantastic shooter, a lot of one hole groups and plenty of kills on game way out there.. It's cold hammer forged, and they are stress relieved. I've had it 8 years, probably 800-1000 rounds. What's driving me nuts is how fast it started opening up. It was just a year or so ago I shot a coyote at 550 yards. Then a few misses on my self imposed 300 yard cold bore challenge on 8" steel. I'd go to the bench and get an 1-1/2-2" group on what was always 1/2" or less. Clean the barrel and it's good to go. The cleanings are way, way more frequent than when the rifle had 400 rounds through it.

I'm new to fast 6mms, and I've heard a lot about having to scrub out the carbon ring every couple hundred rounds to prevent pressures from spiking. I've definitely seen my velocity start to increase - is the carbon ring a thing?

If I shot guns for a living I would hate cleaning too. But I don't and I'm anal.

I confirmed zero on a new loading the past few weeks for my 6.5 Creedmoor. I run a couple dry patches down the bore after. then, I will leave it as is till after hunting season. I will then clean it well. This just me, I like to keep my stuff nice. My guns are more than just tools to me.

But this is just me. I kinda enjoy cleaning them.,

Plus, I need to keep them ready for quick sale.

BTW WC, you just sold a bunch of NULA's

I don't believe my grandfather ever cleaned his old .22 rifle and I when I finally got ownership of it and cleaned out all the carbon from the barrel, this is what I found.

Until someone can make gunpowder that leaves no corrosion and doesn't absorb moisture, I'll chose to store my rifle barrels consistently clean rather than inconsistently dirty. Besides, they all shoot MOA or better starting with a clean cold barrel, which is plenty good to take wild game.

Of course, the photo below helps explain why some folks refuse to own a bore scope.

Yeah, I'm the same way, I clean my rifles after every outing, it's just a habit I picked up on in the Army and it has carried over to civilian life. I like my hardware to be clean and ready for the next time I need to use it, so yeah, consider me anal about that stuff as well.

Surprised there was anything left of the old Springfields we had to clean with Lousiana Hot Sauce every night. But we didn't clean the bore.

Carbon ring is absolutely a thing! It's more of a thing when you have quite a bit of free bore, as well as quite a bit of bullet jump to the lands. I had to clean the ring out of three different client's rifles. When I described how aggressive you've got to get to get it out, they didn't want to do it themselves. You'll see bullet jamming into the carbon ring, where there was no jam before. Essentially, the carbon is acting like the lands are growing toward the bullet.

Silliness.

I do shoot for a living. And I clean every barrel before a load development. Then I foul that barrel back in at 100 yards, before performing a 200 to 500 yard load development. One rifle after another, they are scattering shots the first 3. Cool the barrel. The next 3 are tighter. Cool the barrel, the next 3 are even tighter.

The rifle I'm working on right now, waiting on the barrel to cool. This was shots numbers #16 and #17 today. It's a carbon fiber barrel, so it cannot tolerate 3 consecutive shots.

J.G., that is certainly impressive!

I had no idea carbon fiber barrels were made for rifles, that's interesting.

There really is no clear answer to this as barrels and bullets are so varied. I once had an old Winchester Model 70 in 375 H&H that has a massively rough barrel. The grooves filled in with bullet jacket material and shot MOA all the time. Pure target shooters are justifiably in a separate category of their own. IMO the rest of us clean barrels more as a personality type than actual need.

great observation Big Sam

I have my very first barrel specifically spun up for me that I'm about to start shooting. Can't remember if it's a bartlien or a brux barrel but should be one of the ones that are considered nice. i think I'm NOT going to clean it much. just shoot the 100rds of loaded factory ammo and then head straight into reloading.

We're getting back to the question of what is the measure of expected accuracy for hunting rifles versus target rifles. I'm sure a lot of members here have acquired an older, rough looking rifle & then were amazed by how well it shot. If the exterior is an indicator of interior I'm sure the original owner didn't rush home to "properly" clean the bore after every use. A good JB cleaning will often do wonders for an old neglected rifle.

Mr. Pertnear. I think you have the best signature statement I ever read.

Been doing this for years.......clean new barrels down to bare metal with Kroil, then JB's, apply Dyna Bore Coat as prescribed, then start shooting, no break in required. I've got a couple of rifles I can't even remember when I cleaned them last. I definitely don't scrub barrels just for the heck of it.

Good post. Fouling, albeit carbon, copper, or lead, is a necessary evil that helps smooth out the imperfections that exist in both rifling and ammo. (Yes, no one will ever create a perfect barrel or perfect ammo that always performs with perfect consistency.) While the target shooter with the goal of shooting tight groups to score points considers carbon fouling a must, the rifle owner in search of maximum longevity considers it a nuisance due to its corrosive properties and ability to absorb and hold moisture against metal. In the end, it's up to the rifle owner to decide what is most important, scoring points or owning something that future generations will hopefully appreciate and enjoy. Each is proper and correct in their approach.