Well I guess I'm an old fart & I don't care. The Fn 13" rule is the state mandating that everyone must become a trophy hunter. Yeah you guessed it, I'm a horrible old meat hunter. Antlers aren't edible even though some of them are very impressive. Would I like to kill a big old 14 point Hartford? Hells yeah. But not being allowed to cull your herd is stupid. On my place we have at least 3 bucks with normal antlers on one side and the other side has one tiny brow tine then the main beam points straight up. They will never be legal and will keep passing the bad genes right down the line.

I'm not against restrictions mind you as there are better ways to manage the herd. 4 points on one side works from PA to way out west. And it's easy to tell if the deer is legal. What Fn moron thought this $h!t up?

I really tried not to cuss but it ain't easy

The issue I have with it is, over the past 5-6 years I'm seeing a lot more high and tight racks. The main reason I went MLD. Now I'm shooting them all off.

45, did you read the whole thread? Lots really believe they help a lot and some do not but the reasons are rooted in assuming the vast majority of sub 13” deer are young and they are trying to let them get older.
The racks you mentioned with a very inferior rack on one side and a regular rack on the other is almost certainly not genetic. It is caused by some type of injury at some point and they may grow out of it if given a chance.
Your comment about the State wanting everyone to become a Trophy hunter has some merit. MOST hunters desire larger antlers so the State is TRYING to do what will help get the public closer to where they want in that regard. Some mature deer will be very narrow but Statewide its a huge minority. So its not a perfect system but most feel it has helped a lot in most areas.

None of the properties I frequent in ar counties are growing more narrow and tall.

Just shoot does then, problem solved.

While I am a fan of AR’s they do not make it convenient for a traditional rifle hunter to kill does.

It’s made a huge difference in Bell and Coryell county

The meat hunter argument is laughable.

The average deer herd in TX is going to have a 2:1 (honestly more like a 3:1, but let’s be conservative) doe:Buck ratio. On top of that 90+ percent of illegal deer are going to be 1.5-2.5YO bucks which usually make up 50% of a typical buck herd. Factor in the fact the a significant portion, let’s call it half, of those 1.5YO bucks will be legal because they have at least one in branched antler you’re looking at 37.5% of your buck herd being illegal. In a conservative 2:1 doe:Buck ratio herd, you’re looking at only 12.5% of the total herd being illegal to hunt.

Meat hunters have plenty of animals to hunt with ARs

If you’re a meat hunter and not a trophy hunter then why worry about culling and what genes get passed on?

Shoot your spike buck and be happy with it.

Note to the condescending tones of the trophy hunters in a county over run with nice deer. Not so much in Wichita County. I'm saying there is a better Way to manage the herd without the 13" rule or did y'all not see that.

Honestly, I didn't expect to get any respect for my thoughts on this most sacred cow topic. This is as sacred as NEVER killing a bass or trout. I bet some of y'all are a dandy at home. Type A's on a hunting trip......cringeworthy

Go shoot your spike and be happy with it? Bugger off. I'm seeing multiple bucks with the same jacked up racks. I have killed large bucks, but this is a terrible implementation of AR.

Please note I'm not against antler restrictions because they help the herd.

I am opposed to the moronic 13" rule because it is too subjective. Make it four points on one side six points total eight points total something that you can count and verify and you know that you're legal that's all I'm saying good night and E Pluribus Unem

AR’s were never about growing trophy deer. It was allowing deer to get to maturity for better herd health. Bigger racks are just a byproduct.

In a lot of the AR counties, 90% of buck harvest was yearling deer.

You never saw jacked up racks back then because most bucks didn’t live long enough to grow much past a fork horn.

The point rule is implemented in other states but a lot of 2 year old bucks will have 8 points so it kind of negates the purpose of having a restriction. The goal was to allow bucks to reach 3 years of age before being eligible for harvest, which isn’t old.

Thanks for bringing this thread back. I saw the “high and tight” thread, and kinda high jacked the gentleman’s post of a good deer to harvest.
I’ll post this again: everyone I showed this rack photo to could not guess even within 2 inches of my deer’s spread measurement. This deer was barely legal; yet he was 5 1/2 years old upon teeth inspection (exactly what I thought before I harvested him) and, the new Parker County record. I find most people can guess the age with a year. Measurements? No way in Hell are the majority of Hunters able to determine spread easier that age. This management practice is faulty. Most unbranched are very young; but, some genius thought best to let a 9 year olds walk and shoot the young ones. Gene management is not rocket science. You better know what you doing in these restricted areas.

AR’s without exceptions are good for increasing lion and coyote populations

Before AR’s here folks would shoot anything with antlers and a mature buck was not a common occurrence. AR’s have worked great here.

I grew up hunting that if it had a horn you shoot it, but the culture is changing, my grandkids grew up with AR’s , now they won’t shoot nothing but a mature buck no matter if it’s legal.
We don’t have trouble with high and tight racks,
I own land where 2 counties that are in AR’s , and one is not, we try to take mature deer AR’s or not.
So far I like AR’s.

You rode in here cussing and blaming morons and now you’re upset at the response? I’m upset that you didn’t bother to actually read the thread before going off half-cocked. For $30, the MLD Harvest option will allow you to kill those bucks you are so mad about.

And FTR I love to eat bass.

I call that “wild pig syndrome”. If you don’t regulate the human being; they’ll turn into a wild pig. Ever wonder why they can stitch pig parts into a human? Because they are compatible or alike. Thank God for the 10 Commandments.

It’s always one extreme to the next when government gets involved. I totally agree with ARs. But, exceptions must be implemented in order for it to function as designed and more efficiently. Anyone that discovers upon recovery that the spread is under 13” (usually between 11”- 12 3/4” with good intentions) is going to dump that carcass. Of course, they will go again to fill that tag. Then, you have old ones suffering until they die. That’s not a strong herd.

I despise the “I’m a meat hunter but want to shoot a big buck” mentality. Your meat hunting buck harvest is most likely completely sabotaging the big buck dream. You want to have you cake and eat it too. In general I think you have a very poor understanding of how what you hope to achieve works. And in this instance are complaining about probably the only thing that will ever improve your situation.

It’s easy to be a hunter; challenge yourselves to be a good manager of wildlife. Just like it’s easy to become a parent; how you perform parenting is what really counts.

The two can exist in the same space. But a lot of people don’t want to lay off the young bucks.

I grew up ( as did you ) at the tail end of the “ if it’s brown it’s down” era. If it was “legal” or not. That dictated the harvest. Not what was best for the herd.

I’ve killed some immature animals in my day and I understand certain factors that play into choosing to do so. But it’s not sustainable long term if you’re genuinely concerned about herd health.

I recently shot an immature moose and even though the meat will be shared, I feel guilty about compromising my personal ethics. If I could go back I would not have pulled the trigger.

Let me clarify, I don't have an issue with AR's. But, in my case I had a couple of high tight bucks that were 4-5yrs old that were not legal. Apparently they did a lot of breeding because I'm seeing more narrow bucks than before. Now that I'm high fenced I'm also MLD. I don't like the narrow genetics so those bucks are coming off. I have 2 this year and 2 more that I'm going to give one more year to see what they do.

Overall I this AR's are good, but in some cases, they can affect a herd somewhat.

I’m not saying you don’t have some high and tight bucks. I think the reasoning that the ones you saw did any appreciable amount of breeding is off base. Pretty sure all the research I’ve ever read indicates with any kind of moderate ratios that individual bucks do not do a significant amount of breeding. Then take into account that non genetically enhanced deer are 100% mutts and the narrow buck caries as much un expressed genes for wide horns as the wide buck does for narrow horns and each fawn grows up to be whatever his draw out of the petri dish is. Deer are not pedigreed livestock… in most cases.

EXACTLY MY POINT. Exceptions, Exceptions, Exceptions. Where are they Mr. Biology Guy? Him and the decision makers probably never hunted in their lives. I’ve seen over 80% of Hunters guess age better than spread measurements. Especially, with a rifle at distance.

I heartily disagree. MOST hunters can't age a deer at all, or even really give it any thought. Just look at the seasoned hunters on here, who actually give a darn, trying to age some of the pics that are posted. You'll get ranges from 2.5 to 6.5 on some. MOST hunters should be able to look at a buck's head, wait for him to look at you, and tell if the antlers are ear-wide or not. If they can't, then they either need much better optics or they don't need to be hunting at all.