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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: SherpaPhil]
#8837148
04/20/23 04:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406 |
I use Buffalo Bore 44 Mag 340 grain hard cast flat nose at 1,425 fps. Compare that to their 10mm 220 grain hard cast at 1,200 fps and there really is no comparison.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: Red Pill]
#8837157
04/20/23 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,388
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 66,388 |
Your ammo will be important.
Truth. When Larry Kelly was trying to get a Kodiak bear with a .44 magnum, he emptied his revolver into a bear that broke into their cabin. His guide killed it with a rifle. Kelly was using hollowpoints, and they didn't penetrate the hide and fat layer. He switched over to either FMJs or solids (can't remember which), and killed his bear. I also remember a fairly recent study of bear attacks/shootings. A large number of the bears were killed or driven off with a 9mm pistol. Everything I’ve read (that I trust) said hard cast bullets for that very reason
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8837187
04/20/23 05:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072
cabosandinh
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,072 |
4" so as not to be too cumbersome
My alaskan side arm is a Ruger blackhawk in .44
good luck with his hunt
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8837232
04/20/23 07:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 33,033
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 33,033 |
Your ammo will be important.
Truth. When Larry Kelly was trying to get a Kodiak bear with a .44 magnum, he emptied his revolver into a bear that broke into their cabin. His guide killed it with a rifle. Kelly was using hollowpoints, and they didn't penetrate the hide and fat layer. He switched over to either FMJs or solids (can't remember which), and killed his bear. I also remember a fairly recent study of bear attacks/shootings. A large number of the bears were killed or driven off with a 9mm pistol. Everything I’ve read (that I trust) said hard cast bullets for that very reason Several years ago a long time guide in Alaska said his heavy like 200+gr hard cast bullets with a large meplat were the choice for him and his daughter. He wrote the way to stop a bear on the spot is a CNS hit with enough to penetrate head or neck and most bullets are not up to the task on the neck from a handgun. They both carried 6 inch barreled 357s and had both used them to stop bears. He said they preferred the 357 over larger magnums due to recoil and faster recovery for additional shots if needed plus something to the effect of you could be mauled or killed by a dead bear that just doesn't know it yet.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#8837235
04/20/23 07:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792 |
what I used when hunting hogs
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8837240
04/20/23 07:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792 |
thanks every one, lots of good info, this kid ( not a kid any more ) made marine sargent in 31 months, set school record in hight school wrestling, undefeated two years, I don't worry about him getting proficient with any weapon, personally I like the idea of the chest holster, and a short barrel shotgun. again, I really appreciate all the sincere comments, it was on my bucket list, but the wore out back said NO
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838324
04/22/23 02:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 469
Kevin Heath
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 469 |
When I graduated college, my Dad took me on a caribou hunt, so we wanted to carry pistols for bears. Our guide told us whatever caliber you carry better start with at least a 4, lol. I carried a .45 LC in a chest rig, and my Dad a .44 mag in the same chest rig.
Last edited by Kevin Heath; 04/22/23 02:49 PM.
Some days you're the pigeon, other days you are the statue!
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838338
04/22/23 03:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,331
Dave Scott
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,331 |
There's a dealer in Waxahachie who a year or so ago was selling Ruger Bisley Super Blackhawks in 454 Casull for about $795. I couldn't resist. Really top of the line I use the 300 grain loads.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838364
04/22/23 03:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,792 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838419
04/22/23 05:45 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,553
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,553 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag By a substantial margin.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838435
04/22/23 06:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag Like I said earlier, there's really no comparison.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8838443
04/22/23 06:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,765
duckhunter175
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,765 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag Like I said earlier, there's really no comparison. No comparison in energy- but there's a few good reasons already listed that many are making the switch to semi 10mms
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838470
04/22/23 07:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 422
Big Sam
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 422 |
If you get into an argument with a bear he will not give you time to think it through. You will react based on your training.... less the pucker factor. So many of us get guns that we cannot effectively train with. If you cannot train through 100 rounds in a couple hours then your gun has too much recoil, blast, weight or whatever. Can you do it twice a week for a month before the hunt to be very fast, very sure and very accurate? Have you trained in rain, wind, twilight, etc? Bears do not offer fair fights.
IMO the correct answer is the most powerful handgun that you can master the above with. I have a nephew who is virtually recoil proof so his selection will be a LOT different than mine. I don't care what you pick but my choice is precisely a G40 with 200gr hardcast bullets. For me, it meets the above requirements better than anything else. The G20 is a second but the G40 eats recoil like my grand kids eat candy. Fast followup shots are much easier.
Edit to add... Couple guys mentioned using 6" 357 revolvers. With the above criteria these are a near perfect solution.
Last edited by Big Sam; 04/22/23 07:51 PM.
"Group think" is not thinking. It is the lack of independent thought. It is a cancer of the mind.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838500
04/22/23 08:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,411
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,411 |
While hunting, I wear a Glock 20 in 10mm. 200 gr XTP alternated with 200 gr FMJ.
I can shoot a Glock better than I can shoot a revolver.
I'd take the same rig to bear country.
(I need to add the TL7 to it.)
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838507
04/22/23 09:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585
hetman
"Trash Master"
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"Trash Master"
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585 |
Ruger Alaskan in 44mag or 454 casuall in a Alaskan guide holster as been suggested. If 44mag is not enough the 454 casuall 250 grain to 300grain @ 1400 to 1500fps ought to be. I carry the 44mag for night hunting pigs .sent it off and had big dot trinium front sight installed. Just put the dot on what you wish to whack. It's a great snubby
"Lesser mortals are pitied for the misfortune in not being born Texan."
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838880
04/23/23 03:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 723
Capt.JVH
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 723 |
I go to Alaska yearly to hunt with my friends in Ketchikan. I carry a Colt Delta Elite 10mm with Buffalo bore hard cast bullets. I used it on a 400# wounded black bear a few years ago and it dropped it in its tracks. I had shot a good boar on a tide flat with my 300wm. It ran into the undergrowth. We went in to look for it after a while and I saw it lying about 30 feet from me. I yelled at my buddies that I had found it, to my surprise it wasn't dead. It stood up and started moving at me. I didn't have time to shoulder my rifle. I pulled the delta and hit him with 5 out of 6 rounds. The last one in the head. He piled it up.
To me it's more about having a gun you are comfortable shooting than it is anything else. it took a hit to the computer to put it down. Bears can soke up body shots and keep moving.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: duckhunter175]
#8838951
04/23/23 04:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag Like I said earlier, there's really no comparison. No comparison in energy- but there's a few good reasons already listed that many are making the switch to semi 10mms Bases on the OP's last post, I think he made the obvious best choice.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8838972
04/23/23 05:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,765
duckhunter175
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,765 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag Like I said earlier, there's really no comparison. No comparison in energy- but there's a few good reasons already listed that many are making the switch to semi 10mms Bases on the OP's last post, I think he made the obvious best choice. Well if the OP wants to hear something objective rather than subjective he can look here: https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/best-bear-defense-handguns/The author has more time in alaska and killed more bears than probably anyone in this thread... combined. If it's TLDR; two camps (10mm semi and big bore revolver)-- he provides the pros and cons to each and then his personal choice (hint: its small, semi and 10mm... with a light)
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8838986
04/23/23 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,246
TXHOGSLAYER
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,246 |
Doesn’t anyone carry a 12 gauge with a short barrel and tactical stock? Are slugs not a good bear stopper?
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: TXHOGSLAYER]
#8839008
04/23/23 06:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,411
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,411 |
Doesn’t anyone CARRY a 12 gauge with a short barrel and tactical stock? Are slugs not a good bear stopper? Key word there. A pistol goes in a holster. Everyone is already carrying a rifle. Who's gonna carry two long guns?
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8839036
04/23/23 07:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,037
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,037 |
just got through reading 10mm vs 44mag, I was surprised, 44mag Like I said earlier, there's really no comparison. No comparison in energy- but there's a few good reasons already listed that many are making the switch to semi 10mms Bases on the OP's last post, I think he made the obvious best choice. Vaild point, hopefully his recoil management and training is at your level. I know mine ain’t but also why I downsize calibers. OP no expert but even a black bear in shoulder with 300wm/rum/wby etc and its going a good ways, you pop mid body which is both lungs with a 139 gr 6.5 MM bullets its normally done in under 3 seconds. Id me more worried about rounds on target then ft/ lbs of energy. What ever you get him, get him 300 plus rounds to send down range before he goes
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8839047
04/23/23 07:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,406 |
Seems like there’s a misconception that there’s going to be pistol shots put on a brown bear at some kind of distance. In a bad situation, everyone is going to use their rifles and that is correct. The pistol is just in case everything else has gone horribly wrong.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#8839085
04/23/23 09:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,037
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,037 |
Seems like there’s a misconception that there’s going to be pistol shots put on a brown bear at some kind of distance. In a bad situation, everyone is going to use their rifles and that is correct. The pistol is just in case everything else has gone horribly wrong. no misconception here, why I mentioned barrel length and draw ability in first post. my point was you arent dropping even a blk bear DRT with a 300mag if it is not or spinal or brain, but its not hard to get to the organs. pull your service pistol and let me know how much quicker and more accurate you are then with big wheel gun at 8-10 yards. This being general statement, you spent a lifetime shooting for or in high-stress situation so you are what I personally would call the bar. Very few would get even 1/50 of your performance with either weapon but most would be closer with your service pistol. Point was only way you are dropping a Bear DRT is spine or brain. Its been proven capacity and accuracy with hard cast in any 38 cal or larger including 9mm +p is adequate. what ever he gets him, I hope he spends lots of time getting very handy with it before hand
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: colt45-90]
#8839095
04/23/23 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 267
AZ_Hunter_2000
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 267 |
A grizzly can run up to 35 mph which translates to 17 yards per second. Surprise a grizzly at 20 yards, you basically have just over a second to kill it or make it turn. Surprise a grizzly at 30 yards and you have about a 1.75 seconds to kill it or make it turn. You get the idea.
Folks need to focus more on speed of their draw and fast accurate (80-90%) CNS shots rather than bullet diameter and its velocity. A hand cannon that can level T-Rex is worthless if you cannot draw it and get an accurate shot off before the bear is on you.
If you can draw your handgun of choice and get 80-90% CNS hits consistently in 1-2 seconds, then kudos. If not, keep practicing and/or drop down in power.
-----
A light is nice as you may not be able to get a head-lamp in play. Do get one better suited to the environment (ex: Streamlight TLR-7A) rather than one for the house (ex: Streamlight TLR-6).
A laser trainer for your rifle and handgun, combined with a charging grizzly target, is highly effective at least for significantly reducing "draw" times and increasing first shot CNS hits.
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Re: wheel gun for Alaska?
[Re: J.G.]
#8839475
04/24/23 02:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,952
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,952 |
While hunting, I wear a Glock 20 in 10mm. 200 gr XTP alternated with 200 gr FMJ.
I can shoot a Glock better than I can shoot a revolver.
I'd take the same rig to bear country.
(I need to add the TL7 to it.) Yessir, this right here. I'll take 15+1 over 5 or 6 every time.
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