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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks]
#8796458
02/06/23 05:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 961
BigDad
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No, just using the factory muzzle brake.
Joe
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796678
02/06/23 11:13 PM
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GusWayne
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Here is my update… I came home to clean the gun, ran a snake 4-5 passes w bore scrubber, ran 3-4 patches until the last came out clean. Then got to thinking…this gun has an adjustable gas block. I went and found the manual…. So I went back out to my range and picked up the brass to inspect it I was clearly over gassing the piss out of this rifle, I’ve never had an adjustable gas block and didn’t think about it trying to run it suppressed. So my Google trail shows and over gassed gun can cause accuracy issues. Here is the damaged brass and all the pieces are damaged the same, here is the owners manual. I was running it on dial 3 and it should be run suppresses on dial 1 I will still run different loads the next chance I get. But maybe this could explain some of the groups I saw yesterday
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796679
02/06/23 11:18 PM
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GusWayne
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A little better pic of some brass
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796692
02/06/23 11:41 PM
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GusWayne
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I will add that the brass deflector is pretty mauled up for just around 40 rounds, that brass damage and the deflector marks are telling
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796695
02/06/23 11:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 22
MichaelL
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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Here is my update… I came home to clean the gun, ran a snake 4-5 passes w bore scrubber, ran 3-4 patches until the last came out clean. Then got to thinking…this gun has an adjustable gas block. So I went and found the manual…. I was clearly over gassing the piss out of this rifle, I’ve never had an adjustable gas block and didn’t think about it trying to run it suppressed. So my Google trail shows and over gassed gun can cause accuracy issues. Here is the damaged brass and all the pieces are damaged the same, here is the owners manual. I was running it on dial 3 and it should be run suppresses on dial 1 I will still run different loads the next chance I get. But maybe this could explain some of the groups I saw yesterday I posted this over on the Long Range Hunting forum yesterday. Maybe it will help Kind of a long post but I remember better if I write it... I found the brass from the 3rd test shot. It was a little forward of where I was standing. To me that says the buffer weight is still too high at 3 oz. And... that is apparently wrong. I found the following in an article found HERE:The easiest way to know what effect your buffer weight has on the rifle is to look at the ejection pattern:
Think of your muzzle at 12 o'clock and the buttstock as 6 o'clock. If the casings are flying out from the 12 to 3 o'clock positions, likely your firearm is over gassed with too light of a buffer.
From 3 to 4:30 (about a 45-degree angle from the ejection port) you're good to go. Any further back to about the 6 o'clock position, i.e. hitting you, your buffer may be too light or the rifle is leaking gas in which case it cannot fully eject the casing with the proper force and you're soon going to experience feeding issues.
If you have anything but perfect ejection, the simplest and cheapest method of seeking a correction is to check your AR10 buffer weight, then try a heavier buffer. You would need to see the thread for this to make sense: I converted all of the grams to oz's. The only reason I used grams was that's what the digital scale I have was set to. I don't mind metric... it's just a number. When all of the buffer weight articles are written with oz's it's time to convert Aero Precision Buffer weight: 3.8 oz Geissele Buffer weight: 4.3 oz Removing the lightest weight in the Geissele (makes it rattle): 3.07 oz I haven't tried the lightened Geissele buffer. I think I'll wait for the Odin Works adjustable buffer to get here or put the Geissele back to where it was. Either way I'll install the adjustable gas block. These are the two commonly supplied buffer weights. The Geissele buffer that I bought is an H2 and that's typical for a carbine length AR10. The following info was found HERE:Heavy or H1: Consists of one tungsten and two steel weights. Weighs around 3.8 oz. H2: Typically composed of two tungsten and one steel weight and weighs about 4.6 oz. H3: Normally uses three tungsten weights to weigh around 5.6 oz. Rifle buffer: Weighs around 5.0 oz and uses five steel weights and a steel spacer. Configurable: You can use different combinations of the included parts to tune your buffer weight to your needs. If I understand all of this right, the original Geissele buffer, which was the heaviest of the buffers that I have on hand, and an adjustable gas block to let me adjust the amount of gas, should get ejection where it needs to be. This is why I prefer bolt guns Later that evening I found JP Enterprises, Inc I'm trying to solve a suppressed vs unsuppressed 8.6 Blackout problem. They make a different kind of buffer assembly that I'm going to try (JPSCS2-10H2). I think your problem is just a matter of tuning the adjustable gas block. When I put the factory Geissele H2 and spring in and fired a round it land at about the 2 o'clock position relative to the direction I aimed. That means that I was over gassing. I don't have an adjustable gas block at the moment so a heavier buffer weight would be the next thing to try. I ordered one but I think I'll wait for the JP Precision Silent Capture spring to get here. I had hoped to reload the brass that I shot. So far only 1 piece of 4 has survived testing.
Hogs get offended if you shoot them with a noisy gun. Be kind to hogs, shoot suppressed Ham operator: NE5U Photos
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796755
02/07/23 01:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
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BigDad
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My SFAR won't cycle consistently on the #2 gas setting even when running hot loads so I leave it on #3. It seems to prefer mild loads, possibly due to the dual ejectors. Some on this forum say dual ejectors cause pressure issues or shows pressure signs earlier.
If you're running a suppressor, you should probably be running on the #1 gas setting.
Last edited by BigDad; 02/07/23 01:20 AM.
Joe
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: BigDad]
#8796767
02/07/23 01:19 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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My SFAR won't cycle consistently on the #2 gas setting even when running hot loads so I leave it on #3. It seems to prefer mild loads, possibly due to the dual ejectors. Some on this forum say dual ejectors cause pressure issues or shows pressure signs earlier. Interesting, I am still keeping an open mind on this I really had high hopes for this being what I was after I will still run my test(s) spoke of earlier as soon as I can Mine is clean, lubed and ready for the next range day The adjustable gas block has been adjusted
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8796816
02/07/23 02:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,943
J.G.
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Dual ejectors are a solution looking for a problem.
Major fail, they actually cause a problem, that would not have been there.
28 Nosler and 300 PRC that are showing pressure on factory ammo. Then I got them, and dropped powder charge lower than I normally would have started and worked back up. I got them to shoot well, and reliably cycle, while not tearing up brass. But thr dual ejector rifles are running a bit milder powder charge than rifles with one ejector.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800238
02/12/23 04:59 PM
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GusWayne
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Ive got a mini update coming....
I found 1/2 a box of ammo from when I owned a .308 a few years ago
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800262
02/12/23 05:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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I’m on to something here… 1st, I’ve misplace my calipers So, here is what I have done since the terrible 3”-4” groups last week. Between work and the pig contest I haven’t had any time to run and get more ammo to try but I did find 10, 165 Federals from when I owned another .308 a few years ago. -I cleaned it good -adjusted the gas block according to Rugers guidelines -I think I stumbled upon the biggest reason why this rifle shot so poorly The rifle shot much better but I did have 2 failure to feeds in 10 rounds. Pic 1, I started at 50 yards…remember I only have 10 rounds to play w here… Pic 2, I moved back to 100 yards…hmmm Things are going ok… Pic 3, another 3 round group…oh hell starting to open back up Pic 4, figured out why and that’s all my ammo…but I am on the issue now
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800270
02/12/23 05:39 PM
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GusWayne
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I think the biggest issue I have found is in the barrel harmonics… When I got the rifle I took the nut and muzzle break off and screwed on suppressor, just like this. So I have been thinking about this all week and today, I screwed the nut back on and then suppressor, like this Also everything was tight in groups 1 and 2 above. Group 3, the groups opened up and I was a little baffled. But I grabbed the end of the suppressor and hand torqued it and noticed had ever so slightly loosened up and I mean this would be measure in fractions…barley loose. So after tightening the suppressor back up. It shot about 1” groups in the last group of 3 round pics I posted above. That’s where I am today, the barrel does seem super sensitive and if everything isn’t right this rifle won’t shoot worth a crap More testing to come when I get ammo
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800283
02/12/23 05:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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-clean it -leave the threaded nut on barrel -adjust gas block -make sure suppressor is super snug
Now, I need to try a few more grains and see what it likes best
But I had intentions of making this my day time pig rig and it aint there yet...even for pigs
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800318
02/12/23 06:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,616
KRoyal
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Did you try unsuppressed?
If the barrel is really that sensitive that suppressor is probably throwing it all out of whack. Also I can’t really tell from the picture but if that is a crush washer you’re putting behind the suppressor remove it. Don’t shoot with a suppressor and crush washer. They’re meant to crush so they aren’t concentric to the barrel. Could get a baffle strike or even worse blow up your suppressor.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800393
02/12/23 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,098
HicksHunter
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Why are you using a nut in addition to the suppressor? There should be nothing between your direct thread mount and the shoulder on the barrel. Thread it on, and crank that sucker down so it won't move when the barrel heats up.
Last edited by HicksHunter; 02/12/23 08:52 PM.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: KRoyal]
#8800441
02/12/23 10:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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Did you try unsuppressed?
If the barrel is really that sensitive that suppressor is probably throwing it all out of whack. Also I can’t really tell from the picture but if that is a crush washer you’re putting behind the suppressor remove it. Don’t shoot with a suppressor and crush washer. They’re meant to crush so they aren’t concentric to the barrel. Could get a baffle strike or even worse blow up your suppressor. It is not a crush washer, here are some better pics What cause the possible thought of harmonics being an issue is that nut originally wasn’t easy to get off but wasn’t hard. I just originally believed it all needed coming off w the suppressor. Then I got to thinking I’ve never saw basically a 2 piece muzzle break and wonder if that nut wasn’t supposed to stay. The rifle for sure shot better w it on, it suddenly got worse when the suppressor got slightly loose and then again shot about a 1” group with the nut and suppressor tight.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: HicksHunter]
#8800443
02/12/23 10:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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Why are you using a nut in addition to the suppressor? There should be nothing between your direct thread mount and the shoulder on the barrel. Thread it on, and crank that sucker down so it won't move when the barrel heats up.
That’s what I originally did and got 3” to 4” groups
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800444
02/12/23 10:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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This is how I had it and got good groups, see that I have the nut added It’s just my belief so far that the barrel gets out of whack without it Now, I still need to shoot a few more boxes but it appears to be the case. I’ve never saw such in my life
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800448
02/12/23 10:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
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GusWayne
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And all week id get home at night and get on a Google trail or YouTube trail over this
Then after watching all these videos and reading I remembered 1 guy who gave a good review of his SFAR showed a good video of the entire rifle set up
So I went back and found that video and sure enough I could see that he left that nut on while he shot suppressed...
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800486
02/12/23 11:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,616
KRoyal
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Gotcha, just a timing nut for the brake. Like Hicks said there should be nothing between your suppressor and barrel shoulder. I understand it shoots like crap without it, but this is a bandaid work around. I’d be contacting Ruger if I were you.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: KRoyal]
#8800523
02/13/23 12:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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Gotcha, just a timing nut for the brake. Like Hicks said there should be nothing between your suppressor and barrel shoulder. I understand it shoots like crap without it, but this is a bandaid work around. I’d be contacting Ruger if I were you. 10-4 When I get the time, Ill give it 4-5 boxes of various good stuff I almost went w the Sig Tread .308 at the time of purchase too Id probably be making a ragged hole w ammo by now if I had of
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8800577
02/13/23 01:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 23,166
BigPig
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A QD mount would solve the suppressor coming loose problem. I dislike direct thread for that very reason, I’ve never not had one loosed after a shooting. We torque every muzzle device down to a certain ft/lb, yet we trust our hands to tighten down a suppressor properly
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8801076
02/13/23 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 201
Inge0071
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Stupid question, but how do you brace the muzzle during testing? Bipod? And rear bag, Y or N?
Are you using a long magazine, 10 rounder, or single loading?
I've got a box of 168 grain FGMM I'd donate to the cause if you're local. That's not a pig (or game) round, but that's all I could get the neighbor's to shoot.
Pro Deo et patria
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8802429
02/16/23 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 33
204AR
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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How loose is the thread fit on the suppressor? I ask because on my 243s, which are dpms g2s, the threads were a pretty sloppy fit and accuracy was so-so. I decided to wrap 3 wraps of teflon tape like plumbers use around the threads and the tight threads resulted in an amazing improvement in accuracy and the suppressor no longer comes loose on it's own.
Any looseness will definitely ruin accuracy. So can being significantly overgassed. The course gas block adjustments might be what I dislike most about the SFAR, just from reading about it so far.
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Re: Ruger SFAR .308
[Re: GusWayne]
#8803234
02/17/23 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,320
Crews
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A large frame AR is difficult to shoot well to begin with, much less one that weighs 7 pounds.
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