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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: Bowhunter 64]
#8779760
01/13/23 12:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,242
DQ Kid
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Don’t know how far she ran . From all the deer I have shot and what I have seen shot doe do not usually run as far as bucks, especially in rut. How far they run can be a crap shoot. I once shot a buck with s as 270 and blew out half its heart. He still ran close to 300 yards . Drenilin is a crazy thing . But the shot in the pictures appears to be going from the head of the deer towards the back of the deer. Looks tofar back from where I would want it to hit. Maybe Liver shot but could have got some lung . Also looks like shes trying to jump the string but waited s bit late. X100
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: ILUVBIGBUCKS]
#8779776
01/13/23 01:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 450
Woj
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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From the looks of the 2 pics she appeared to be just slightly quartering away. 1) I'd say the arrow cut through both lungs and possibly caught the liver as well. I don't believe it caught the back top part of the heart. 2) I'd guess she probably jumped up into the air and bolted off. Guessing how far is pretty tough as each deer is always different. I shot some in that exact spot with my bow and they crashed within 30-40 yards and yet others went 100-150 yards or even a little more. 3) I would think there was plenty enough blood to follow her trail pretty easily and it should have been bright red to a frothy pinkish color. 4) I'm thinking she was a pretty short track job and likely under 50 yards but again, each deer is different and reacts as such to the impact of an arrow.
^ my guess as well. One other question: was her tail up, or tight to her [censored] as she ran off? If up, she ran a long ways. 150 yds+ and I wait for 1 hour for more depending on the outside temp. If tight to her [censored], less than 100 yds and I wait 30 min if I don't see her fall or hear her crash.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8779804
01/13/23 02:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,197
txtrophy85
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one thing you need to factor in, was it a complete pass-thru or did the arrow hang up at the fletching? A deer running with the arrow still embedded in its body will almost always run further than a deer who's arrow passed thru or kicked out right after the shot.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8779818
01/13/23 02:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,605
J.G.
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It looks a bit too high, but more importantly, a bit too far back toward the gut. Based on the angle the bolt is flying in.
I am sure it was a clean kill. Most likely right lung pumping frothy blood, maybe not so much on the left lung.
Tracking was likely over 100 yards.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8779830
01/13/23 02:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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A little bit of my opinion on the perceived angle of the flight of arrow. I’m new to video shots but my small sample size and a few others indicate it’s deceiving. The camera is set up a little to the side and it really exaggerates the flight angle. IMO she is ever so slightly 1/4 away. Look at woj videos on here and that look is similar.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: txtrophy85]
#8779832
01/13/23 02:39 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794
ILUVBIGBUCKS
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one thing you need to factor in, was it a complete pass-thru or did the arrow hang up at the fletching? A deer running with the arrow still embedded in its body will almost always run further than a deer who's arrow passed thru or kicked out right after the shot. Yup I was wondering as well if this was a passthrough shot. If so, I really don't think she went that far. And just like Woj said above wit the tail. I do not like to see the tail up at all when shot...with a bow or a rifle for that matter. I also do not think this arrow got into the gut at all with the angle she was standing which sure looks in the pic to be slightly quartering away.
High fence, low fence, no fence, it really doesn't matter as long as you're hunting!
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8779835
01/13/23 02:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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Video shows arrow going straight through on the other side. I plan to give more info about what happened but I’m watching way too many deer right now. Beautiful day right now.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780117
01/13/23 11:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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UPDATE… Second stage of recovery. When she ran I was quickly adjusting video so didn’t see if she had tail up or down but she went quickly for 75yards. Then she stopped and stood(Uncomfy but not hunched) for 20 seconds. Then she slowly walked 75 yards without stopping till outa the field. First brush she laid down facing me at 65 yards. Head up just laid there 5 or 10 minutes. Got up and right back down. 5 more minutes and she got up and trotted outa view. If she was coherent she could of seen me for sure and likely smelled. I waited about 2.5 hours and looked at arrow and tracked to her bed. Knew where she bedded so didn’t look real close for blood in field but saw none at all, even right after shot or going into bed. Pic shows blood on arrow and both the blades were deployed. Pic of deer was as she walked off. I never saw her exit side but arrow in video looked like pass straight through, and I thought she was ever slightly angled away so unless rib deflected it should of exit slightly forward of entry. I drew many conclusions after this second stage of recovery but I’ll keep to myself and let y’all be in my shoes and tell me what you thought to this point and what you would of done. Remember guys, this is learning exercise and nothing is absolute but wanting logical thoughts on what happened and how to proceed.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780192
01/14/23 01:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,197
txtrophy85
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That deer should have died within a couple hundred yards, but sometimes shyte happens.
Chalk that one up to shyte happening, the results are not typical.
I’ve killed deer with much worse shots than that
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780252
01/14/23 03:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,394
redchevy
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Second picture with the hit, looks a little far back and to me quartering towards if anything meaning exit further back. Explains the lack of blood the walk off and bed seems gut hit typical to me.
I always like quartering away lower half of the body. Not a ton of experience bow hunting but the critters I have hit well bleed like nothing I’ve ever seen before.
Last edited by redchevy; 01/14/23 03:04 AM.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: Pope&Young]
#8780364
01/14/23 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,164
onlysmith&wesson
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This diagram, and the mark "my aim point" is my own that I made and posted here a few years ago. I decided on this aim point and illustrated it with this diagram and marked it up to illustrate where I put an SST bullet. The wound channel in this location is a simultaneous wound to CNS and hydrostatic shock to circulatory system that drops every deer I have ever hit here, with that bullet DRT. I wouldn't try it on an archery shot.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780369
01/14/23 12:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 450
Woj
Bird Dog
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UPDATE… Second stage of recovery. When she ran I was quickly adjusting video so didn’t see if she had tail up or down but she went quickly for 75yards. Then she stopped and stood(Uncomfy but not hunched) for 20 seconds. Then she slowly walked 75 yards without stopping till outa the field. First brush she laid down facing me at 65 yards. Head up just laid there 5 or 10 minutes. Got up and right back down. 5 more minutes and she got up and trotted outa view. If she was coherent she could of seen me for sure and likely smelled. I waited about 2.5 hours and looked at arrow and tracked to her bed. Knew where she bedded so didn’t look real close for blood in field but saw none at all, even right after shot or going into bed. Pic shows blood on arrow and both the blades were deployed. Pic of deer was as she walked off. I never saw her exit side but arrow in video looked like pass straight through, and I thought she was ever slightly angled away so unless rib deflected it should of exit slightly forward of entry. I drew many conclusions after this second stage of recovery but I’ll keep to myself and let y’all be in my shoes and tell me what you thought to this point and what you would of done. Remember guys, this is learning exercise and nothing is absolute but wanting logical thoughts on what happened and how to proceed. Lots of good clues here: 1. arrow pic shows dark blood = liver 2. laid down @140 yds with head up, got back up, then back down = fatal shot, but not for quite a while (hours). Good you waited 2.5 hours before starting to track. AND, when you do start to track, bring a rifle in case she is bedded. up, and still alive 3. pic of the deer as she walked off looks like guts. So, liver AND guts. If it's cold, wait, if it's hot, wait 2-3 hrs then go look, SLOWLY and look in brush and look for just a head looking at you.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780477
01/14/23 04:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,420
Texas buckeye
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This is in OK and outside of rifle season so can not bring a rifle.
I echo txtrophys thoughts on this. I thought this deer should be dead quickly but felt this was an atypical experience. My initial hunch it hit back of lungs and liver was “confirmed” by the darker blood on the arrow, but i would have expected a shorter track/death walk. Perplexing.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: J.G.]
#8780659
01/14/23 11:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 42,605
J.G.
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It looks a bit too high, but more importantly, a bit too far back toward the gut. Based on the angle the bolt is flying in.
I am sure it was a clean kill. Most likely right lung pumping frothy blood, maybe not so much on the left lung.
Tracking was likely over 100 yards. Sticking with my original educated guess.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780808
01/15/23 03:19 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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Clarification…. I want to make sure y’all don’t think the tracking is over and she went unrecovered. My last update was when I went to where she bedded. I’ll add that where she laid there was a good bit of blood. It was mostly dirt there and the blood soaked in and had been there awhile so it was hard to tell much about it quantity or color wise. I’ll give maybe another day then I’ll tell the rest of the track and finish the story. You can look forward to a crude autopsy report with pics of entry and exit wounds along with which ribs it went into and out. I’m really glad y’all have participated and I thank you for that.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780825
01/15/23 03:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,242
DQ Kid
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You lost me on this one bud, can we just get to the finish line.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: DQ Kid]
#8780829
01/15/23 04:07 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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You lost me on this one bud, can we just get to the finish line. DQ, sorry, I thought I did good. Besides, the finish isn’t as important as what was learned along the way. A recap for the speed readers that didn’t follow closely. Step one-I shot and recapped what happened until she was outa sight. Step two-I tracked her till she bedded and I recapped what I saw during that time. Step three-yet to be revealed.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780890
01/15/23 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,103
kry226
The General
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The General
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You did fine, freerange. For the inexperienced hunter, this is a good lesson. In almost 30 years of self-taught hunting (I never had a dad who taught me how to hunt), I've not found a harder animal to kill in the woods than a whitetail doe. I've double-lunged or blown off parts of her heart with 12 ga slugs, and sometimes they just run, run, run.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780908
01/15/23 12:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,242
DQ Kid
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You lost me on this one bud, can we just get to the finish line. DQ, sorry, I thought I did good. Besides, the finish isn’t as important as what was learned along the way. A recap for the speed readers that didn’t follow closely. Step one-I shot and recapped what happened until she was outa sight. Step two-I tracked her till she bedded and I recapped what I saw during that time. Step three-yet to be revealed. No worries, your post. Guess I'm more a punchline than joke setup kind of guy, as opposed to ends justifying means. Keep doing you and I'll wait for the "climax" reveal....
Last edited by DQ Kid; 01/15/23 12:50 PM.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8780938
01/15/23 02:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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From the photos and info you've provided....my first thought was how far camera was from hunter. It makes a difference on what hunter saw vs. what we see through the camera. My first impression was mid body with maybe back of a lung, liver for sure and gut ...depending on angle. IME liver shot deer have humped up and tiptoe off acting sick immediately. First bow kill buck for me only took two steps after first shot a bit lower than OP shot. I got a second arrow in him after he a few minutes when came out from behind a bush. Arrow looked like yours. I did push deer due it rained as I got the second arrow in the buck. Called a dog blood trailer and they found the buck about 250 yards away. Gut shot deer do strange things from not going far to bed to running a long distance before bedding. If other deer are with the deer shot and they run the same direction IME the wounded deer will probably try to stay with them or they will stay by the wounded if it beds. Lot of liver shot deer do not go far before bedding if you don't push them IME. Gut shot generally do the same. What a hunter does or doesn't do after the shot dictates how the recovery goes. The type of broadhead can make a difference on this type of shot. My archery kill recoveries have been 20 yards to 250 yards. Most were 20 to 100 yards when double lunged. One doe I spined dropped in her tracks and one shoulder blade hit I didn't recover. When alone the deer was found closer....other deer running they went farther for me.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8781207
01/15/23 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,103
kry226
The General
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The General
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That's an interesting perspective, stx... always wondered but never really observed your point. However, it has been a while since I've been on a long track. In the last 10-15 years, my deer have fallen in sight or just beyond.
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8781706
01/16/23 07:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
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UPDATE.... I recovered the deer and Ill recap what happened on the final track along with pics and a little crude autopsy report. -Previously Ive told.... at the shot she ran 75 and stopped for awhile, then walked off slowly out of field for another 75 yards and bedded in light brush where I could see her. She got up then down and then got up and trotted off. Total it was maybe half hour from shot to last sighting. I showed pics of the blood and said there was almost no blood prior to her bedding. -Let me address STx comments. The camera was about 20" left of the arrow coming out. Also, the two does with her hung out around her a bit while she bedded. That may of been why she got up from the bed cause there was no other pressure except she could see me in the blind. It was a rifle blind and next time I will be more cautious of a wounded bedded deer and just peep around the curtains(she was also downwind). -The final track... When I went to her bed at 150 yards I finally saw blood in the bed. Its was hard to tell a lot about it since it was mostly dirt and it had soaked in but it was a decent amount. Tracking her out of her bed I finally found some blood but it was very little and not often. Like the arrow it was blackish so I felt certain of at least liver. It had been over 2.5 hours which may not be enough for liver only but the shot seemed far enough forward to get some lung. I tracked her for over an hour and was basically on hands and knees with my old eyes trying to see blood. Every few feet I would finally find a little. I had been looking ahead through thick stuff for a dead deer and after about 40 yards I saw her dead 10 yards ahead. She had gone a total of about 200 yards. She lived at least a half hour and no more than 4. She was pretty stiff so I think she died between a half hour and an hour. -Pics...Im including some pics of her with one laying dead and how thick it was on her trail. Two more pics show the entry(her right side) and exit. Three more show her hanging with entry, exit and through and through. The last two show the entry/exits from inside the ribcage. The top of pic is to the back of deer and you should see the backbone. Counting the ribs from the back, it went in behind the 6 rib and came out forward of the 6 rib. This is consistent with the slight angle away shot. Ill repost the pic of her walking which shows the entry. Ill need to post the pics on the next post so give me a minute. -Autopsy-My careless knife may of botched this up but Ill try. It cut liver for sure and a little gut. It also caught the back part of lungs. As many of yall said, it seems she shouldnt of been able to live that long and go that far(especially not pushed). But she did. I learned a lot from shot to recovery and I hope yall learned something from me posting. Please continue to comment and offer insights. If you have any questions on anything I may of left out feel free to ask. As always, Im here to learn and hopefully others can learn as well.
Last edited by freerange; 01/16/23 07:23 PM.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8781716
01/16/23 07:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
OP
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Last edited by freerange; 01/16/23 07:16 PM.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8781727
01/16/23 07:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 11,242
DQ Kid
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Definitely a little further back of ideal with an arrow, especially. 2-3" forward of that and I think she dies fairly quickly inside of 100 - 150 yards....
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Re: Shot Placement-Anatomy-Tracking
[Re: freerange]
#8781731
01/16/23 07:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,580
freerange
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
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DQ, I agree. I definitely was not aiming there. Still surprised by what unfolded but Im still trying to learn the little details about bow hunting that differ from rifle and thus the reason for the thread. I appreciate you following along, as I do others.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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