That’s a good theory but unfortunately not how genetics work.

This! Bringing in new hunter's is already difficult, let them shoot some deer and have fun. We have 5.5 million

I understand that does are a big part of the picture, but bucks also give half of the DNA in the mix. Just curious what county you hunt and if you have to live with AR's. Not being an AH, but not all areas have the same browse and nutrition as South Texas.

I would be fine with that during youth only weekend and late season where youth can only shoot bucks. I could see the system being manipulated by people wanting to cull bucks and using their kids tag to do it. In other words people would be buying all their kids license rather they hunt or not so they could use the youths tag. Obviously not the majority but some would push the limit.

Adjust antler restrictions to 13” or 5 on 1 side.

Back to a 2 week split for ducks.

This is federal law. Nothing TPWD could do about it, even if they wanted to.

Who cares? A kid shoots a deer and the herd gets managed. Poachers gonna poach.

High-grading is real and happens whenever you only remove animals with specific genetic traits. The folks in Mississippi learned this all too well with their initial "four-point" effort at antler restrictions. In just a few years they saw a reduction in quality because their approach was the exact opposite of what it should have been, to protect the small, basket-racked bucks with greater potential. Instead, they chose to protect spikes and lesser bucks. With this fact in mind, it only makes sense that if you only shoot wide-racked bucks and allow those with tall, narrow racks to continue spreading their genetics, another form of high-grading is sure to happen.

Needless to say, I would like to see a change that would allow hunters to harvest these narrow racked bucks before they have years of protection to spread their genetics.

Dan,

Using an antler spread restriction isn’t high grading. It’s a bell curve strategy that 90% of the bucks will have a 13” inside spread at 3 years old. 10% will hit that before 3 and 10% after 3 ( or not at all ). It’s the most effective way they found to keep a buck population from being slaughtered as yearlings, In the original AR counties 90% of the buck harvest year over year was yearling deer. 90%. So tell me how AR’s are ruining the deer herd when prior to them 90% of the buck harvest was yearling deer and very few ever made it to 3 years old.


The inside spread restriction has absolutely zero in common with a minimum point restriction in Mississippi or the results thereafter.

It’s not a perfect system as a perfect system will never exist and everyone will always have an example to cite of an old deer with less than 13” of spread but it’s the most effective way for Joe hunter to lay off shooting immature bucks and give the herd proper age structure.

Yep. I live less than 3 miles from 3 different bay systems and haven't fished for specs since all of this nonsense. Reducing the limit from 10 to 5 was bad enough, then down to 3 fish and it's not even worth me getting out of bed.

Catch your 3 and then go after black drum and red drum?

Yep Sap there's always that, and Flounder/Sheepshead/Mangrove Snapper........I just like complaining about the trout limit.

Seems more like a theory drummed up by the QDM crowd to say that 90% of bucks will have a 13-inch spread at three years old. Thankfully, the TPWD decided to follow their own science by allowing and often encouraging hunters to take spikes and lesser bucks that will buck (pun intended) that theory.

But I do agree there is no silver bullet when it comes to AR's.

TxTro explained his opinion well and I tend to agree with it.
I do feel for Old Rabbit and others that have a lot of mature bucks that are very narrow. I can only remember one mature buck where I hunt that wouldn’t meet ARs.

What? you said in a previous post that its high grading now its " thankfully, TPWD decided to follow their own science..."



So now that they allow hunters to take spikes and bucks with unbranched antlers, everything is good right? Everyone should be happy that there is a loophole to the 13" rule and kids, first timers and old timers alike can be included.

The thing is, not everyone cares about antler size as much as some of you guys. I like a big deer and had a crack with my bow at what to me was a giant a month or so ago. Having said that my wife took a year old 6 point and we are thrilled with the meat and the experience. The buck and the doe she shot are true trophies in our family, freezer has meat, and we spent some fantastic time together! We are hunting in Oklahoma so not as stringent on antler size (antler must be 3" to be considered a point) and much more liberal with limit especially does. We have seen plenty of big deer without any ARs. Govt. many times just needs to get out of the way, not everyone cares about trophy class deer.

I think you are missing the point as to why they had to introduce AR's in the first place.

As I understand it, the decision to allow hunters to harvest spikes and lesser bucks was based on the TPWD's own findings that bucks that don't have two forked antlers by their second year will very likely lag their peers for life. For that reason, they encourage hunters to harvest these inferior bucks early or BEFORE they catch the protection of the 13-inch rule where they can continue to spread their genetics when better bucks satisfy the rule and become open game. In this manner, the chance of high-grading (taking too high a percentage of wide-racked bucks) is reduced by removing these lesser bucks earlier rather than later. An approach that protects every buck for three years practically ensures high-grading, especially when it protects deer with poor genetics, as was the case with Mississippi's four-point rule.

I see a change that would allow hunters to take three-year or older deer with racks that don't satisfy the requirement as further tweaking of the current system. Or more simply put, it would allow hunters to take those bucks that have slipped through the cracks.

It's a rarity for a mature buck to be less than 13". My guess is less than 10% if not less than 5%. The system works great IMO to keep folks from killing every thing with horns, which is exactly what happens when all restrictions are gone because Johnny Redneck wants some meat and is too dumb to kill an old doe or too lazy to wait for a mature buck.

not every cares about just meat either. Everyone shooting trophy bucks and does still have meat. Not the other way around for the guys shooting young bucks willy nilly.

Yes, because the average texas deer hunter can accurately age deer on the hoof.


Also, the spike study was done at the Kerr WMA, is a high fenced property and its findings go against every other subsequent study....Including the study done by the University of Mississippi.


What retort do you have next?

Do you love deer antlers so much that you feel every Texas hunter should be forced to let every buck walk that's less than three years old?

You don't have to answer.

Beg to differ on how genetics work. Getting rid of bad traits takes time, but it can be done. Many years ago I had Ibex that looked like the top picture. I saw the writing on the wall that said Ibex with knots on their horns are bringing more money. So I got rid of those that looked like the first picture and started using males that looked the way I wanted them to. I would keep the male for about 3 years and then get another that I liked. Each year I would sell the oldest females. If I had 10 female kids I would sell the like amount of old females. I still do this and now my Ibex look like the bottom picture. The same could be done with deer. Keep the bucks you like the look of for a certain time. Each year kill the oldest does. It will work but very few will commit themselves to doing it.

He knows all this don’t waste your time.

He knows the Kerr study only showed that a STX 180” breeder buck line bred to his offspring is going to be bigger than a hill country spike line bred to the spikes off spring.

They never cross bred the does for a reason.

He tried to use Mississippi study knowing good and well they didn’t end up increasing harvest age where as the TX AR spread did significantly increase harvest age. More you increase harvest age more nullified the theory of high grading becomes.

I'll give you the opportunity to answer the same question Bobo.

Do you love deer antlers so much that you feel every Texas hunter should be forced to let every buck walk that's less than three years old?