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Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
#8672644
08/24/22 04:25 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107
dkershen
OP
Rev Dave
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OP
Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107 |
For those of you who hunt mule deer in Texas, you're going to want to check the regulations update for your county in this years update. TPWD has expanded Mule Deer antler restrictions from the 6 "experimental" counties to a total of 29 counties starting this year. Basically all the panhandle counties that have a huntable population. Information about the restrictions are posted here: https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/game_management/muledeer/faqs.phtmlThe Mule Deer antler restrictions are significantly more stringent than white tails. They require a minimum 20 inch outside spread and make no allowances for spike buck harvests. My personal opinion of this program is that it's unneeded and based on bad assumptions drawn from the white tail antler restrictions program. They are trying to solve for a problem that really doesn't exist, and I'd prefer TPWD to quit micro-managing and overreaching. In East Texas the antler restrictions policies for white tailed deer had a positive effect because the density of hunters and land owners didn't allow bucks the chance to mature. I'll be the first to admit it's been a positive program in that region. BUT... the Texas panhandle and Trans-Pecos regions of Texas are the polar opposite of East Texas. They are made up of large to very large ranches with low hunter density. And the majority of these ranches have quality deer management programs already in effect. The few places immature mule deer bucks are being harvested are in places like the Lake Meredith public access. So.. I think that we'll only see the negative side of applying these new restrictions in the panhandle. And ranch managers are now going to have their hands tied and be left unable to cull bucks out of their herds with undesirable characteristics. Since they didn't have the wisdom to balance these restrictions by adding mule deer doe seasons, harvest numbers are going to plummet and the ability to put a mulie in your freezer is going to all but disappear for a lot of people. If you are a mule deer hunter I'd highly encourage you to reach out to TPWD and give them your thoughts on this program expansion. You can reach the commissioners by letter, phone or fax and here is the link with their contact info : https://tpwd.texas.gov/about/tpw-commissioners
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672657
08/24/22 04:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,965
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,965 |
You need to look into MLD.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8672658
08/24/22 04:35 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107
dkershen
OP
Rev Dave
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OP
Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107 |
You need to look into MLD. Yep... setting up a meeting with our biologist to discuss next week. But still think it's a bad program, even if you can go into MLD to end-around it.
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672664
08/24/22 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,463
Old Rabbit
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,463 |
For those of you who hunt mule deer in Texas, you're going to want to check the regulations update for your county in this years update. TPWD has expanded Mule Deer antler restrictions from the 6 "experimental" counties to a total of 29 counties starting this year. Basically all the panhandle counties that have a huntable population. Information about the restrictions are posted here: https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/game_management/muledeer/faqs.phtmlThe Mule Deer antler restrictions are significantly more stringent than white tails. They require a minimum 20 inch outside spread and make no allowances for spike buck harvests. My personal opinion of this program is that it's unneeded and based on bad assumptions drawn from the white tail antler restrictions program. They are trying to solve for a problem that really doesn't exist, and I'd prefer TPWD to quit micro-managing and overreaching. In East Texas the antler restrictions policies for white tailed deer had a positive effect because the density of hunters and land owners didn't allow bucks the chance to mature. I'll be the first to admit it's been a positive program in that region. BUT... the Texas panhandle and Trans-Pecos regions of Texas are the polar opposite of East Texas. They are made up of large to very large ranches with low hunter density. And the majority of these ranches have quality deer management programs already in effect. The few places immature mule deer bucks are being harvested are in places like the Lake Meredith public access. So.. I think that we'll only see the negative side of applying these new restrictions in the panhandle. And ranch managers are now going to have their hands tied and be left unable to cull bucks out of their herds with undesirable characteristics. Since they didn't have the wisdom to balance these restrictions by adding mule deer doe seasons, harvest numbers are going to plummet and the ability to put a mulie in your freezer is going to all but disappear for a lot of people. If you are a mule deer hunter I'd highly encourage you to reach out to TPWD and give them your thoughts on this program expansion. You can reach the commissioners by letter, phone or fax and here is the link with their contact info : https://tpwd.texas.gov/about/tpw-commissioners As for the East Texas AR's, where I hunt about all we have are bucks under 13". Every buck over that magic number gets shot on sight. We have several 10 and 12 point bucks that have very tall and narrow racks that will die of old age and be our breeder bucks for years. I would have much rather they would have reduced it to 1 BUCK instead of this 13" rule. If we had better genetics it probably wouldn't be as much of a problem. Weird shaped racks and bucks with no brow tines get to live also. Hoping the Mule Deer restriction work as well as TP&W expect, but I doubt it.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672765
08/24/22 07:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,787
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 30,787 |
I never did care for antler restrictions. Seems even dumber for mule deer, to me.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: Old Rabbit]
#8672810
08/24/22 08:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,961
maximum
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,961 |
. . As for the East Texas AR's, where I hunt about all we have are bucks under 13". Every buck over that magic number gets shot on sight. We have several 10 and 12 point bucks that have very tall and narrow racks that will die of old age and be our breeder bucks for years. I would have much rather they would have reduced it to 1 BUCK instead of this 13" rule. If we had better genetics it probably wouldn't be as much of a problem. Weird shaped racks and bucks with no brow tines get to live also. Hoping the Mule Deer restriction work as well as TP&W expect, but I doubt it.
That's what everybody wanted, especially many that never hunt in east Texas, so that's what we have
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672825
08/24/22 08:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,965
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 62,965 |
You need to look into MLD. Yep... setting up a meeting with our biologist to discuss next week. But still think it's a bad program, even if you can go into MLD to end-around it. I get the premise but mule deer very a lot more then WT in my opinion. My last three mule deer are 6.5 or older(147-160”) and are <20” wide
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672850
08/24/22 09:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 967
Lipan Creep
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 967 |
I'd argue that most fish and game laws are implemented to booster income than they are to adequately manage the wildlife resource.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672869
08/24/22 09:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490 |
Antler restrictions work, at least for whitetail.
Everyone complaining about them in east Texas are overlooking the thousands of mature bucks that have been killed as a result of AR’s that didn’t exist before
I would have loved to have AR’s when I hunted there as 90% of the buck harvest was yearling bucks
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672877
08/24/22 09:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27,894
Creekrunner
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27,894 |
I've met more than one idiot in Terrell County that made it clear they were gonna shoot any mule deer with horns. I don't hunt there anymore, but I'm fairly certain it will help the trophy quality in that marginal mule deer county.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8672930
08/24/22 10:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490 |
You need to look into MLD. Yep... setting up a meeting with our biologist to discuss next week. But still think it's a bad program, even if you can go into MLD to end-around it. I get the premise but mule deer very a lot more then WT in my opinion. My last three mule deer are 6.5 or older(147-160”) and are <20” wide First year I was on the place one of the guys shot a 173” I believe that was only 17” wide. Had double drops. Neat deer
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8672974
08/25/22 12:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,884
GusWayne
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,884 |
Numero uno guy here for any new laws being added
I like the add 1 law take 1 away deal personally
But, I have saw 1st hand AR's work on whitetail
I was a skeptic, now I am not
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: GusWayne]
#8673001
08/25/22 12:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,463
Old Rabbit
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,463 |
Numero uno guy here for any new laws being added
I like the add 1 law take 1 away deal personally
But, I have saw 1st hand AR's work on whitetail
I was a skeptic, now I am not
I am very glad they have worked for you and the place you hunt. We have a tall, narrow trait in our area and very seldom see a legal buck on trail cameras or in person. What county do you hunt in please? We are in Southwestern Harrison and are struggling.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8673132
08/25/22 10:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,586
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,586 |
While I'm normally not a fan of extra rules like ARs, I have absolutely seen an improvement in mule deer buck quality on my place that is in one of the original experimental counties. For the first ten years we owned the place, I never saw anything but scrub six-point dinks. Since the the experimental ARs went into effect (five years ago, IIRC), I have seen 170" bucks on my place and found a dead 165" two years ago. I won't say it's the right tool for every area, but I'm a believer for my area of the Panhandle. 
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8675821
08/28/22 11:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,052
Dodge_Rock
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,052 |
MLD is the solution for your ranch and others that are managed well. They say about 80% of muley bucks killed are one-three years old and so the restriction should help. They should add another criteria or exception, as some 200" bucks fall inside 20" and are well over three.
At least they added more days, now 16 up from 9 in come counties and added archery season.
One of the more strange new laws is the option to keep the tail as proof of sex - for a buck. I've yet to figure that one out.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8677139
08/30/22 04:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 107
Buschy
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 107 |
I agree with what others have said. Antler restrictions for mulies do not seem to be particularly effective. Open to learning more though.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: kry226]
#8677349
08/30/22 08:13 PM
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 964
Sauerkraut
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 964 |
While I'm normally not a fan of extra rules like ARs, I have absolutely seen an improvement in mule deer buck quality on my place that is in one of the original experimental counties. For the first ten years we owned the place, I never saw anything but scrub six-point dinks. Since the the experimental ARs went into effect (five years ago, IIRC), I have seen 170" bucks on my place and found a dead 165" two years ago. I won't say it's the right tool for every area, but I'm a believer for my area of the Panhandle.  This has been my observation as well.
"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8686478
09/12/22 08:08 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107
dkershen
OP
Rev Dave
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OP
Rev Dave
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 25,107 |
Checked our records and both these bucks were aged by our biologist at 6.5. Width's are 18 and 19 inches respectively. ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/09/full-12881-362293-1002f209_0640_4c05_a985_6972c106e15d_1_105_c.jpeg)
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8686495
09/12/22 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,586
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,586 |
Coulda used another year...  Yup, straight width restrictions never address those kinds of deer, and this has been THE gripe since the inception of ARs. At least for one of those bucks, an exception for 6+ points on a side would help address it (not that I see that coming to fruition). But at the end of the day, there's no easy answer. However, I stand by my statement that these ARs have already improved the buck population. And heck, maybe the boys will actually have to fight for their harems now, and the strongest buck will win out, thereby improving the entire herd.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8686527
09/12/22 09:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490 |
Checked our records and both these bucks were aged by our biologist at 6.5. Width's are 18 and 19 inches respectively. ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/09/full-12881-362293-1002f209_0640_4c05_a985_6972c106e15d_1_105_c.jpeg) Most biologists on private land recommend taking Mule Deer trophies around 8 years old....wonder if these would have been candidates in a few more years? Everyone is going to be able to produce this kind of example. What is not shown for every narrow racked mature buck is the tens of dozens of immature bucks saved from harvest
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8686753
09/13/22 01:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 91
LtizzleMcTiz
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 91 |
Checked our records and both these bucks were aged by our biologist at 6.5. Width's are 18 and 19 inches respectively. ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/09/full-12881-362293-1002f209_0640_4c05_a985_6972c106e15d_1_105_c.jpeg) I’ve heard brow times growth/size can be a good indicator but that wouldn’t seem true for the deer on the left. Not a huge fan of antler restrictions but my guess is the average hunter doesn’t have an easy way to gauge age reliably otherwise
Last edited by LtizzleMcTiz; 09/13/22 01:48 AM.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8687189
09/13/22 06:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 46,281
Stub
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 46,281 |
Checked our records and both these bucks were aged by our biologist at 6.5. Width's are 18 and 19 inches respectively. ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/09/full-12881-362293-1002f209_0640_4c05_a985_6972c106e15d_1_105_c.jpeg) How do you ever expect a Mule Deer to become a harvestable trophy if it drinks Coors beer 
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: LtizzleMcTiz]
#8687228
09/13/22 07:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 33,490 |
Checked our records and both these bucks were aged by our biologist at 6.5. Width's are 18 and 19 inches respectively. ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/09/full-12881-362293-1002f209_0640_4c05_a985_6972c106e15d_1_105_c.jpeg) I’ve heard brow times growth/size can be a good indicator but that wouldn’t seem true for the deer on the left. Not a huge fan of antler restrictions but my guess is the average hunter doesn’t have an easy way to gauge age reliably otherwise Another issue is a mediocre mule deer is the same size as a nice whitetail, so inexperienced mule deer hunter sees a 140” mule deer and they think it’s a good deer to shoot when in most cases they are shooting a immature buck It’s not an absolute science by any case as we’ve shot very mature deer that wouldn’t meet AR’s, but it’s a good an implementation as one could expect for the average hunter to abide by to let young deer grow
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: kry226]
#8687263
09/13/22 08:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 56
OneK
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 56 |
While I'm normally not a fan of extra rules like ARs, I have absolutely seen an improvement in mule deer buck quality on my place that is in one of the original experimental counties. For the first ten years we owned the place, I never saw anything but scrub six-point dinks. Since the the experimental ARs went into effect (five years ago, IIRC), I have seen 170" bucks on my place and found a dead 165" two years ago. I won't say it's the right tool for every area, but I'm a believer for my area of the Panhandle.  I totally agree. My area was in the 3 year mule deer study several years ago that coincided with the AR. They used a helicopter to capture, tag and put GPS collars on bucks, does and fawns. They tracked movements all year on all deer with collars with graduate students and electronic equipment. These deer were recaptured every fall for evaluation. During this time and 4 years after the study hunters were required to bring all kills to a check station for evaluation. Using this study and the data from deer harvest gave undeniable proof that restrictions do work. The quality of our bucks vastly improved during the test period. Because of this I'm certain that is why the AR areas were expanded.
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Re: Mule Deer Antler Restrictions - Big Expansion
[Re: dkershen]
#8687269
09/13/22 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,723
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,723 |
On our MLD mule deer ground, it's all about age.....trying to shoot 7 yr olds and older. No offense, but most hunters aren't real good at aging deer on the hoof. Not saying it's easy, but it's not terribly hard to do. Here's a good candidate..... ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/y1ENa05.jpg)
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