Couple of separate threads going about sand bags and bipods so trying to combine and learn.
Trying to learn pro and con when shooting off a hard concrete bench in regard to using a bipod vs a somewhat cushioned bag of some sort.
Assume free floated barrel and wood stock.
Im no expert and Ive never used a bipod and really not likely I will.
Decades ago I was taught(Daddy) to never rest your stock(certainly not barrel) on any hard surface.
It was said that if bipod legs go forward that it doesnt work against the recoil. Makes sense but its still a hard surface that seems like it could bounce upward(even if not back). If experts say with certainty that a free floated barrel solves this, or if a bipod has enough give in it, then that would make sense. My gut says neither is enough.

Reply any way yall want but I wish everyone would just answer at least this one question......
IF YOU REST YOUR RIFLE STOCK DIRECTLY ON A 4X4 BLOCK AND THEN OFF A QUALITY BAG WILL IT SHOOT TO THE SAME SPOT?

For your one main question I feel like the answer is maybe. If the stock is properly floated and action has been bedded then it should cause no I’ll effects either way. Stock and barrel contact greatly increases the sensitivity of any outside input of pressure. Properly floated and bedded you should be able to do almost anything to the forend of the stock with no adverse effects. I’ve had many issues with stock pressure and learned the hard way.


A bipod holds the rifle up, but used properly it’s a tool that can reduce or eliminate rifle jump and increases consistency shot to shot.

I've found I'm most accurate shooting off a pile of sandbags. I also sit one on top of the scope to weight the gun down, and I will stick them under my elbows and lastly I use a leather rear bag under the stock. I get everything set and then pull the rear bag towards me until the crosshairs are where they need to be. This is only when I'm shooting off a bench for load development. Any other time it's off the door or mirror of my truck, deer blind window base, my knee, a tree, whatever the situation gives me.

wp, quality answer as usual. All noted.

aggie, Thanks, but tell me when you shoot off the "door or tree etc" do you expect the same impact spot as when off your bench bag set up??

I know my dad told me the same because he didn't want me destroying the wooden stock which he coveted by laying it on hard surfaces that would scuff it up. Maybe your dad and mine thought the same. No offense to your daddy. I know my father didn't and still doesn't have the knowledge about free floated barrels and bedded actions and their impacts on the rifle that we do today. If they would have said not to put your barrel on the rest.......then they would be 100% correct.

Go to any long-range competition and see what they use or have to shoot off of. Anything from a bipod, a bag, tree limb, cinder block, free hand, ladder etc. A properly bedded action and free floated barrel is the key. Your shots won't be affected regardless of the rest you are using. The only rest that will affect it that I am aware of even if properly bedded and free floated is a lead sled.

ringworm, makes sense, and I appreciate the explanation.
And, yes, my Dad didnt know a lot about free floating and my rifles are free floated now. He didnt care about the scuffing, he just thought the jarring mattered.
I kind of still do......
You got me curious though.... Are you saying long range competition they would shoot off a cinder block without any padding or a bipod?

I don't compete nor have I been to a competition. Most, I assume, allow you to bring 1 bag of your choosing from waht I have read. There very well may be competitions where you can't bring anything. Those questions would be better answered by Fireman or others that compete. I may have misspoken, but I think you get the point. The rifle is able to freely recoil no matter what it's on top of. Sure, there is more friction, but it can still recoil. It's when you prevent it from doing so by putting it in a sled that hinders it. Just my opinion. Smatter people will weigh in on this as well, I am sure.

Usually hard surfaces front or rear will provide inconsistent results. There is definitely a science to what sand or filler is best for bags. These big heavy 15-20lb guns that are typically used in a prs style match can be supported generally in any condition will shoot moa or better.. A light weight hunting rig will have some inconsistencies.

Its all relative, depends on what your goals are.

This^^. A light weight rifle with a bipod will bounce around on a hard surface. You have to "drive" the rifle really well to avoid POI shifts from the rifle hop. It's doable, but more challenging.

I use a big Bulls Bag for the front rest and a bunny ear type bag for the rear support. The sand filled Bulls Bag is a heavy rascal. Probably weighs 40 pounds. Won’t move around at all. I’ve had that Bulls Bag for an easy 20 years, with the last 15 or so being on the bench - outside, but under a roof. It shows no sign of being worn or rotted or leaking sand. Money well spent.

I should mention, as a PSA, that the bulls bag didn’t come with filler sand. No problem, says I, so I dug some sand from the kids’ sand box. It was a bit damp, so I put it on a large pan and slid it into the oven (wife wasn’t home). Well, the cat had been using the sandbox for his litter box. Who knew! Man, did I ever stink the house up with the smell of baked cat poo and urine. So, buy some sand blasting sand at Home Depot and avoid the hysterical tongue lashing I got.

Good info guys. I think Im pretty smart but willing to admit my inexperience on many topics. I think many are in this boat so I feel these type threads can help a lot of people. This stuff seems to be real basic stuff but there are still differences in opinion.

It seems free floating is a big difference maker on this topic. Personally, Im not ready to believe it totally solves the problem in all cases.

wp75169 threw out a "maybe" in there.
TAB used the term "inconsistent" in his reply. He also said its "relative" and "depends" on goals.
I think those terms apply to most everything, as there are few finite things. Because of that I can be hard to sway off my common sense and experience based opinions. But I love to keep asking these questions cause I get a little more info every time.

Chad really hit a home run for me. "Light rifle bounce around on hard surface". "must drive rifle well", "its doable but more challenging."
Totally makes a lot of sense to me. I have a somewhat light rifle so that may be enough for me. If Im putting in what it would take to be an expert it would be different, but since Im not, I have no interest in learning how to drive the rifle(for bipod) and anything "challenging" doesnt give me enough juice to offset the squeeze. I say all that cause Im a hunter that wants acceptable accuracy but I dont plan to be an expert marksman.

Having said all that, Im leaning towards going to a real quality bag and stay away from bipods and hard surfaces. It may not matter but why not? I dont plan to use a bipod in the field.
Keep it coming though.

It makes it more difficult to steady the rifle. Just try holding aim with a cheap BB gun to see for yourself.

I packed a few ball bearings and Walmart bags into the hollow stock of my inexpensive Savage Axis to make it heavier and have been very pleased with the result. The majority of my shots are taken from a tripod using the top rails as a forearm rest.

It does solve the problems in all cases.

If the barrel is truly free floated, in all scenarios, it does not matter if the forearm is on a bipod, human hand, bag of corn, bag of sand, cinder block, Boulder, tree trunk, tree limb, truck mirror, trailer rail, pick anything. As long as the shooter can get the rifle still, the rifle will shoot well.

There needs to be complete solid contact of the action tang to recoil lug, and nothing at all can tough the barrel forward of the recoil lug. It it's really free floated, no outside force will make the forearm touch.

If everything that could be done was done for that rig, then inconsistencies are the fault of the loose nut behind the trigger, not the machine's fault.

This is true, however if you have any flex in a forearm you can induce issues but thats the nut behind the rifle..
Personally I bed everything and put about .080” clearance minimum for the length of the barrel. Wood stocks get pillars epoxied in so you can torque the action to 45 in pounds or so.

bags are fine for practice. If I am sighting... I like to use my vice.

-Z

Why?

Can't shoot worth a damn for zeroing.

Vices are the debil and should all be destroyed. They make the rifle shoot different.

That's the worst time for using the vice. Zero the rifle for how you plan to shoot it. A vice can easily change your POI (point of impact) from the vice to your shoulder.

Some vices are fun. However I prefer to use a vise to hold something!!

You got to that before Creek did......

Why try to shoot off a hard surface to begin with?

Some would say "why not"? Evidently some are adamant that with a properly free floated barrel that it doesnt hurt and would imply that its better than something with too much give.
By you asking, it would imply that you think it does or could matter. I tend to agree and especially with an unknown rifle setup. Evidently that is old school thinking and is why I ask in the first place.
Short answer to your "why shoot off hard surface to begin with" could obviously be "cause hard is all thats available". So with nothing available to shoot off of should you take the time to take off your boots and put a sock up there? Should you not take the shot? Inquiring minds want to know.
I do know there is an entire thriving industry selling products to rest a rifle on.....

No need to get lost in the weeds. A soft rest helps dampen muscle twitches. Nothing works better when zeroing a rifle than a bag of corn.

The discussion brings to mind that when only a hard rest is available, can a more accurate shot be made by placing the hand on the rest while gripping the forearm? It's something that can be done with either a side or bottom rest.

It may have been something I learned without paying close attention, but I always place my hand between the forearm and a solid rest.