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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8578372 04/14/22 04:04 PM
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So if all the deer are raised on the farm and no new deer have been brought in how did CWD get there?

Deer outside the fence? confused2

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8578433 04/14/22 05:32 PM
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I'm going to try to find some info on CWD so I can understand as right now I am confused...I'm afraid what I will find is that CWD has always been here as far back as GOD. No known humans have contracted the disease, I have been told. If you have to kill all the deer on a farm ..why don't they have to kill all the deer around where a deer has been found with CWD where we hunt?

Re: Depopulation [Re: angus1956] #8578587 04/14/22 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by angus1956
So if all the deer are raised on the farm and no new deer have been brought in how did CWD get there?

Deer outside the fence? confused2


Good question. Maybe TPW is missing an opportunity to use this place as a case study and find out.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Hudbone] #8578902 04/15/22 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by angus1956
So if all the deer are raised on the farm and no new deer have been brought in how did CWD get there?

Deer outside the fence? confused2


Good question. Maybe TPW is missing an opportunity to use this place as a case study and find out.


Exactly. Why can’t we wait and see? Often apparently healthy deer test positive for CWD. Pretty rare to see a zombie-fied deer staggering through the woods sideways. I don’t pretend to understand EXACTLY what is going on but it’s safe to say TPWD kills a whole lot more deer than CWD.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 04/15/22 04:16 AM.

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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8578908 04/15/22 05:49 AM
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I understand we have to eliminate the possibility of an infected dear getting loose and spreading the disease among the native population, as a North Texas hunter I don't want that crap anywhere near me.

As others noted, I don't undersand how CWD got there in the first place though. And I certainly don't understand why the entire herd has to be killed and the landowner foots the bill. I sure would like to understand why the live test can't be administered to the entire heard, effected dear euthanized and the process repeated until there are several months of no infected deer...What irks me to no end is I probably already know the answer - that takes a LOT of resources, time and effort especially for a heard this size. A bean counter would come to the conclusion it's much easier and cheaper to kill them all. It might be easier and cheaper - but that don't make it right.


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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8579031 04/15/22 02:15 PM
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CWD will become a hot topic in the future for Texas. It was first detected here in Nebraska in 2000. Too sensitive a subject for me to get involved but here are some sites that have info for anyone looking to learn more. Google Search: Nebraska Game and Parks CWD or CWD Alliance It will answer some of the questions that have been asked so far. There might be more information if you look under Colorado. They've been looking at this since 1967.

Last edited by Huskerron; 04/15/22 02:16 PM.
Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8579181 04/15/22 07:12 PM
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Any word as to the current status of this?

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8579378 04/16/22 01:59 AM
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If my understanding of the law is correct, it is not legal to have a game animal as a pet. But we can have them as a business? I think that CWD or not, this captive breeding/selling of whitetail deer is a perversion where money, politics, and the TPWD, created a mess that benefits very few. As a hunter of wild game, it would be fine with me to do away with this part of "hunting."

Re: Depopulation [Re: Brother Phil] #8579641 04/16/22 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother Phil
If my understanding of the law is correct, it is not legal to have a game animal as a pet. But we can have them as a business? I think that CWD or not, this captive breeding/selling of whitetail deer is a perversion where money, politics, and the TPWD, created a mess that benefits very few. As a hunter of wild game, it would be fine with me to do away with this part of "hunting."


There is only one problem with that. There were almost no whitetails in/around North Central TX until probably some time in the 80’s. We have a healthy herd now thanks to the captive cervid industry. TPWD has been participating in capturing and moving deer around this whole time. Plus all the exotics in the area. Have you seen the axis deer at Lake Tawakoni? Where do you think they come from?

It’s not just for well heeled land owners. We have reaped the benefits of the captive cervid industry since before it had a name.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 04/16/22 05:27 PM.

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Re: Depopulation [Re: 10 Gauge] #8579688 04/16/22 07:40 PM
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I have no issue with game being trapped by TPWD, then moved. No issue with the exotics. The point I made was the industry that breeds/raises/sells whitetail deer. They are a game animal, and this is a niche market that does not benefit the average hunter. As far as more deer in N TX, I don't think that is because of captive deer breeding.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Brother Phil] #8579755 04/16/22 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother Phil
I have no issue with game being trapped by TPWD, then moved. No issue with the exotics. The point I made was the industry that breeds/raises/sells whitetail deer. They are a game animal, and this is a niche market that does not benefit the average hunter. As far as more deer in N TX, I don't think that is because of captive deer breeding.


Deer breeders have their place. You just do not have to participate in that which they provide. Others can take care of that. If everything had to only benefit the average hunter, the sport would be in a rut.

I don't own or operate electric vehicles. They seem to be selling a few. I have little in the way of issues with that.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8579759 04/16/22 10:32 PM
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I think TPWD screwed the pooch when they started the breeding permits. Hopefully they have learned their lesson and don't start it with Mule Deer.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8579917 04/17/22 12:13 PM
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I am guessing many think of canned hunts when they think of Deer Breeding Facilities. That's selling that microcosm of the hunting industry way short.

In the mid-nineties, a fella obtained 2,000 acres of prime Freer low brush and low fenced ranch land. The front property boundary was a county road. Along some of the the back of the property was a HF. On one side there were smaller places and on the other side, even smaller places. Along those two sides, the number of blinds sitting on the fence line was, well, intimidating. Many if not most of the small property owners wanted their blinds on the large neighbor's low fence.

Hunting the place, they just did not see any substantial deer numbers and thought there may have been a die off. What they found out was there was a perpetual die off. At the end of the second season, they hired a helo survey and observed 11 deer. Yep, one deer to every 180 acres. Aerially visualizing the surrounding properties detailed a hunting activity congestion which was not healthy. The costly decision was made to HF the place. Upon completion, they brought in fifty bred does and began a supplemental feed program. The bred does were delivered in early 98, just prior to the one of the worst droughts in memory. Those which survived were strong. The next year, they brought in four tagged bucks and set them loose.

Five years into it and for whatever reason, the blinds along the fence lines fell into disrepair. The deer herd within the HF enclosure now protected from the neighbors, healthily swelled. At this time, the ranch now produces an amazing abundance of healthy animals and some absolute, bomber trophy studs. I do not know what would have happened without the introduction of the 54 animals brought from a deer breeder, but I do know what happened since they were introduced. If in the very same situation, I would have done no different.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Hudbone] #8580042 04/17/22 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
I am guessing many think of canned hunts when they think of Deer Breeding Facilities. That's selling that microcosm of the hunting industry way short.

In the mid-nineties, a fella obtained 2,000 acres of prime Freer low brush and low fenced ranch land. The front property boundary was a county road. Along some of the the back of the property was a HF. On one side there were smaller places and on the other side, even smaller places. Along those two sides, the number of blinds sitting on the fence line was, well, intimidating. Many if not most of the small property owners wanted their blinds on the large neighbor's low fence.

Hunting the place, they just did not see any substantial deer numbers and thought there may have been a die off. What they found out was there was a perpetual die off. At the end of the second season, they hired a helo survey and observed 11 deer. Yep, one deer to every 180 acres. Aerially visualizing the surrounding properties detailed a hunting activity congestion which was not healthy. The costly decision was made to HF the place. Upon completion, they brought in fifty bred does and began a supplemental feed program. The bred does were delivered in early 98, just prior to the one of the worst droughts in memory. Those which survived were strong. The next year, they brought in four tagged bucks and set them loose.

Five years into it and for whatever reason, the blinds along the fence lines fell into disrepair. The deer herd within the HF enclosure now protected from the neighbors, healthily swelled. At this time, the ranch now produces an amazing abundance of healthy animals and some absolute, bomber trophy studs. I do not know what would have happened without the introduction of the 54 animals brought from a deer breeder, but I do know what happened since they were introduced. If in the very same situation, I would have done no different.


You don't think maybe they would have gotten the same results with the supplemental feeding and the deer they had?

Re: Depopulation [Re: don k] #8580086 04/17/22 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by Hudbone
I am guessing many think of canned hunts when they think of Deer Breeding Facilities. That's selling that microcosm of the hunting industry way short.

In the mid-nineties, a fella obtained 2,000 acres of prime Freer low brush and low fenced ranch land. The front property boundary was a county road. Along some of the the back of the property was a HF. On one side there were smaller places and on the other side, even smaller places. Along those two sides, the number of blinds sitting on the fence line was, well, intimidating. Many if not most of the small property owners wanted their blinds on the large neighbor's low fence.

Hunting the place, they just did not see any substantial deer numbers and thought there may have been a die off. What they found out was there was a perpetual die off. At the end of the second season, they hired a helo survey and observed 11 deer. Yep, one deer to every 180 acres. Aerially visualizing the surrounding properties detailed a hunting activity congestion which was not healthy. The costly decision was made to HF the place. Upon completion, they brought in fifty bred does and began a supplemental feed program. The bred does were delivered in early 98, just prior to the one of the worst droughts in memory. Those which survived were strong. The next year, they brought in four tagged bucks and set them loose.

Five years into it and for whatever reason, the blinds along the fence lines fell into disrepair. The deer herd within the HF enclosure now protected from the neighbors, healthily swelled. At this time, the ranch now produces an amazing abundance of healthy animals and some absolute, bomber trophy studs. I do not know what would have happened without the introduction of the 54 animals brought from a deer breeder, but I do know what happened since they were introduced. If in the very same situation, I would have done no different.


You don't think maybe they would have gotten the same results with the supplemental feeding and the deer they had?

Probably not without high fencing out the ranchette neighbors. I hunted a place just like that near Canyon Lake quite a few years ago. All the surrounding ranchettes had feeder and blinds on the property line. Had to hunt the interior of the property only.



Re: Depopulation [Re: don k] #8580270 04/18/22 12:03 AM
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[quote=don k You don't think maybe they would have gotten the same results with the supplemental feeding and the deer they had?[/quote]

If not one deer was shot, they took 11 deer and turned that into 65 deer in just two years. Add to that at least 50 fawns and you have over a hundred. Without adding the deer from the breeder, how long would you have expected them to wait? Somes stress patience, but that would be ridiculous.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580366 04/18/22 04:03 AM
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When you are talking about a 2k acre property, what is really the difference in high fence vs low fence? They are obviously supporting a healthy deer herd, the deer have everything that they need. Is it any more ethical to manage the property without the high fence? I don’t think so. It’s not exactly a pen, the animals have a couple miles to run from you in any direction. It just protects your investment from your neighbors, which in this case they obviously have no idea of how to manage a herd nor any intention.

If I had the income to pay for 2k acres and put a high fence on it you better believe I would do it.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 04/18/22 04:04 AM.

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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580395 04/18/22 10:38 AM
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Someone once told me, "Good fences make good neighbors".

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580467 04/18/22 12:42 PM
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I wouldn't have waited until I had just 11 deer left...If your herd is being over harvested the biologist should've cut down on doe permits way before the herd density got so low. The problem was managing the property poorly. Deer counts are a must and the responsible is the owner along with the biologist in that area. Low deer numbers would've been realized and permits cut drastically. If that didn't work I would have to find out why..is there illegal hunting. I know first hand how hunters on your property lines can devastate a herd of deer. I had to give the biologist numbers and proof of over harvesting. After I did that the number of does began to increase. My herd grew. I didn't put up a high fence as I didn't have the deep pockets. I still have the high number of hunters on the fence but I am not loosing the does as before.
So...I put the blame on the poor management...I can't blame anyone but I can blame the process.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580493 04/18/22 01:44 PM
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Also face the fact that nearly every person the TPWD deals with in regard to captive deer is going to be well enough off money wise to fight the battle to control what they are investing their money in, in this case raising deer. Who is flipping the bill for the state---me, you, and a dog named Boo---all citizens of the state of Texas. With that in mind, the state has no problem fighting each and every law suit that is brought up.


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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580655 04/18/22 06:05 PM
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This CWD is bad stuff and we must get emotion out of the discussion!!!!

As a conservative I want this man's rights protected but a logical decision must be made with the consideration of the free range local as well as the state population as to the risk of transmission. If depopulation is the only scientific resolution then it must be done without unnecessary delays from the legal. I'll be damned if I want it any where my place at any time!!!!

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580718 04/18/22 08:53 PM
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But the line between politics and science has been moved. If the man has a high fence herd they need the new data more than they need to kill those deer.

The two most important factors in CWD are the ones I have not seen any data for- how contagious is it and what really causes the prions to mutate? We all have prions these are mutated prions.

What if it is caused by pollution? Or Roundup/Parquat? Or something else entirely?

We know CWD is nothing like EHD. EHD can wipe out half or 3/4 of a herd in a season. We’re not freaking out about that.

Even if CWD is 100% fatal, fatal when? Not that long ago most deer didn’t live long enough to suffer the symptoms of CWD.

The politically correct reaction to CWD is to overreact. If there is one thing I have learned in this life, it’s the status quo is almost never the right way of handling things. We need to handle this differently. Slaughter the herd and scorch the earth is not the answer.


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Re: Depopulation [Re: 10 Gauge] #8580881 04/19/22 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
But the line between politics and science has been moved. If the man has a high fence herd they need the new data more than they need to kill those deer.

The two most important factors in CWD are the ones I have not seen any data for- how contagious is it and what really causes the prions to mutate? We all have prions these are mutated prions.

What if it is caused by pollution? Or Roundup/Parquat? Or something else entirely?

We know CWD is nothing like EHD. EHD can wipe out half or 3/4 of a herd in a season. We’re not freaking out about that.

Even if CWD is 100% fatal, fatal when? Not that long ago most deer didn’t live long enough to suffer the symptoms of CWD.

The politically correct reaction to CWD is to overreact. If there is one thing I have learned in this life, it’s the status quo is almost never the right way of handling things. We need to handle this differently. Slaughter the herd and scorch the earth is not the answer.



VERY WELL SAID.

Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8580910 04/19/22 01:53 AM
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Latest data says no such thing as CWD, it was based on contaminated lab results in the sixties.

If you don’t know what I’m referencing then you are way behind the power curve and completely uniformed (ignorant).

Probably the same with your opinions on Coronaviri.

So its all political and subjective.

It will take some time for those who justify there existence off of CWD to let go just like the coronaviri disciples.

Y’all know the type, its like a game warden that writes you or an excited 8 year old kid a ticket for bringing up the wrong sized fish from depth and keeping it. You know the fish, you bring them up so fast they explode and die but the kid is happy anyway and you figure why waste a dead fish instead of throwing back a dead fish…Yeah, those type demons !

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Re: Depopulation [Re: Judd] #8585105 04/25/22 04:43 PM
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This CWD initiative is probably being done to make feeding deer illegal.

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