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Anyone explain these groups?
#8549320
03/06/22 04:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Last week or so I was getting .77, 3 shot groups out of this Bear Creek Armory 762x39 Today, I wanted to shoot it and started seeing a trend. This is meant to be a pig rifle mainly, so I am not sure what to do w my cold bore zero now Multiple shots are often taken at sounders This was 3 rounds in 6 seconds, 10 min cool down and repeat. 1 round is good to go and rounds 2 and 3 are 4”s high This is brasses cased Winchester and I am 120 rounds in total ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-339212-52633a70_b153_4461_8338_7c5cc81abee8.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-339213-7b75fbd0_bae5_4355_9674_de44caf02c7d.jpeg) ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-339216-c36077bf_7f04_4570_84f4_7431439e830d.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549357
03/06/22 05:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,263
J.G.
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Clean the barrel, try again.
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: J.G.]
#8549365
03/06/22 06:10 PM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Clean the barrel, try again. 10-4 Thanks
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549400
03/06/22 07:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 33,151
kmon11
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Guessing this is an AR. Some of the more knowledgeable AR guys hopefully will provide input, but with ARs it is not uncommon for the first shot to go to a bit different place than those loaded by the action. I do not know what the answer is.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549403
03/06/22 07:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Yes, it is an AR
And after 120 rounds, of those, 40 were Wolf Russian crap
I bet it is filthy but figured I could have gone closer to 500 rounds
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549407
03/06/22 07:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,506
scottfromdallas
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Clean the barrel, try again. 10-4 Thanks Don’t adjust zero until you get about 10 fouling shots through it. You’ll save some aggravation. I’ve chased zero right back where I started many times. NowI just follow fireman’s advice on it.
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549421
03/06/22 07:47 PM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549426
03/06/22 07:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 37,789
Buzzsaw
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It's shooting minute of "pig" Don't sweat group size with this rig. If you really want to, Get a bolt action or at least an AR in .223/5.56 
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549431
03/06/22 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,400
pertnear
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My guess is the receiver face or barrel nut are not squared. Also the barrel nut may have been over-torqued to get the gas tube aligned. Easy fix for an AR tinker'er. 
"I haven't shot a 1,000 deer, but I've sat around a 1,000 Texas camp fires. I'm a happy man." - pertnear
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549807
03/07/22 02:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,754
DStroud
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I have had a couple of those great rifles that assumed if you missed the first round elevation was needed for subsequent shots as your target was fleeing.... it’s a keeper! 
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549865
03/07/22 04:16 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,259
papa45
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Interesting. I have a Mini 30, 7.62x39 that consistently shoots similar groups. Follow-up shots are always higher and slightly right of the first shot. I don't think it's a cold/warm or clean/dirty barrel issue. I suspect it has something to do with the way the bolt closes or movement between the action and stock. I'll be following this topic for other ideas.
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8549903
03/07/22 11:42 AM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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I didn’t have a bore snake and couldn’t find my patches  It’ll probably be this coming weekend before I can get the cleaning supplies But I’ll clean it and post a follow up
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554567
03/12/22 03:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Ok, I went and cleaned the barrel really good last night Cleaner sprayed down barrel 2-3 times, bore snake for 3 passes, wet patch once, and 3 dry patches and the last came out white This was my first group just now, same as last group Something aint right What else could it be? ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-340038-2f7e043c_a7b7_4a52_afef_e8939900fc9f.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554572
03/12/22 03:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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This same rifle gave me .77 groups new a month ago, all groups were under 1" 
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554576
03/12/22 03:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Its been very consistently shooting that EXACT pattern
Shot 1-close Shot 2-high Shot 3-high
Id guess a 4" spread all of the sudden but nothing is erratic
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554581
03/12/22 03:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 43,263
J.G.
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This same rifle gave me .77 groups new a month ago, all groups were under 1"  With EXACTLY the same ammo? Make, model, lot number. Is it suppressed?
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554586
03/12/22 04:04 PM
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GusWayne
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Not suppressed I bought 12 boxes of this from SG Ammo Can’t find a lot number on it ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-340039-0c44947f_8724_43bf_9a60_a35e811a175a.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554588
03/12/22 04:06 PM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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I picked up 2 boxes of this last night. I have not shot any of this ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-340040-11518a8f_32fa_489c_b304_99931374e7b7.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554590
03/12/22 04:11 PM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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Heading out to shoot the Hornady
Back in bit
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554594
03/12/22 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,052
glocker17
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I would clean the bore and try again, the bore snake thing isn't going to do much.
Otherwise, I would pull off barrel and re torque. Might square up front of received before reinstalling the barrel and nut. A true 3/4" MOA average in a BCA AR in that caliber might be too much to expect.
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554597
03/12/22 04:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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1st Hornady group I guess it’s a little better ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-340041-5a1de3d0_80fb_4b73_b5e3_366f7dceea11.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554598
03/12/22 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 788
hermano W
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I had a bolt action that did that. After trying everything we finally decided it was the thin barrel making the cold bore shot different. Is your ar a pencil barrel by any chance?
Last edited by hermano W; 03/12/22 04:57 PM. Reason: Miss spelling
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: GusWayne]
#8554604
03/12/22 04:25 PM
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Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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2nd Hornady group ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/userpics/2022/03/full-19291-340044-05f079d2_689a_4a89_9fa8_030264ac997c.jpeg)
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: glocker17]
#8554610
03/12/22 04:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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I would clean the bore and try again, the bore snake thing isn't going to do much.
Otherwise, I would pull off barrel and re torque. Might square up front of received before reinstalling the barrel and nut. A true 3/4" MOA average in a BCA AR in that caliber might be too much to expect.
Ok, will clean it up again I would have called it dirty last night but started this morning w a clean one And yes, for $460 I was surprised at the first 100 rounds and the groups it produced Since then, its terrible Id settle for 1.5'' for pigs and the price
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Re: Anyone explain these groups?
[Re: hermano W]
#8554618
03/12/22 04:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,918
GusWayne
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I had a bolt action that did that. After trying everything we finally decided it was the thin barrel making the cold bore shot different. Is you ar a pencil barrel by any chance? Its not a heavy barrel Just hard to believe this thing impressed so much and all of the sudden it went to crap
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