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Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Brother in-law] #8481091 12/20/21 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Interesting items here

I’ve personally never put anything on my screws but recheck them once a year or so

I’ve recently come across a slide milling company that provideS screws to mount the red dot. The screws have a blue colored lok tite

I’ve never had an issue in modern times since I got a proper wrench but I will go with Fitzs advice.

The maker of the rings I use(Warne) provides a torque setting and advises against thread locker. If you use a thread locker and tighten to spec you've over tightened, could damage your scope or strip the head trying to remove. Ive had nothing but perfect performance from them.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: DStroud] #8481374 12/20/21 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DStroud
Curious if anyone has used Vibra-Tite. I had a friend who carries his rifle in a side by side constantly chasing hog dogs and his turret set screws fell out. I helped him get replacement screws and the company sent screws with Vibra-tight applied to them. I bought some and have used it on my recent Scope installs.
I can say that my Gravel bike kick stand kept loosening until I put Vibra Tite on it and it’s been solid for over a year.

Anyway If someone has an opinion on it I am listening.

Vibra-Tite is just another brand of anaerobic thread locker. They even use the same basic color codes as Loc-Tite brand. There are many brands and I don't know if there is any significant difference.

Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Tbar] #8503262 01/14/22 12:22 AM
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Clean, dry and 18-20" lbs.

Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Tbar] #8503295 01/14/22 01:16 AM
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I do exactly what the MFG recommends. That way if it fails I know it isn't because of me, and I need a new product. Recommended torque specs are picked based on ring-screws having a certain amount of force holding them in place. That force is NOT measured in/lbs of torque, it's a specific amount of friction between the threads of the screws and of the rings, which is affected by the amount of torque provided. Adding a foreign material (like Loctite) changes this amount of friction present, therefore changing the optimum torque. Other things affect optimum torque like the contact area of the two surfaces, the material used, and probably a couple of other things. I've gotten this exact speech from engineers at Leupold, Vortex, and Nightforce that Im fortunate enough to work with somewhat regularly. Bottom line-Those engineers know that math better than I do, so when three competitors give me the same message, I'll take it til someone can prove me wrong,

All that being said, a lot of that stuff is splitting hairs.

Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Roughneck913] #8503329 01/14/22 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Roughneck913
I do exactly what the MFG recommends. That way if it fails I know it isn't because of me, and I need a new product. Recommended torque specs are picked based on ring-screws having a certain amount of force holding them in place. That force is NOT measured in/lbs of torque, it's a specific amount of friction between the threads of the screws and of the rings, which is affected by the amount of torque provided. Adding a foreign material (like Loctite) changes this amount of friction present, therefore changing the optimum torque. Other things affect optimum torque like the contact area of the two surfaces, the material used, and probably a couple of other things. I've gotten this exact speech from engineers at Leupold, Vortex, and Nightforce that Im fortunate enough to work with somewhat regularly. Bottom line-Those engineers know that math better than I do, so when three competitors give me the same message, I'll take it til someone can prove me wrong,

All that being said, a lot of that stuff is splitting hairs.

Agree.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Tbar] #8503330 01/14/22 01:51 AM
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I on occasion use blue loctite on the bases but it’s an exception more than the rule. I cannot remember a single time using it on rings though, I clean and torque. Torque wrench is non negotiable.


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Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Tbar] #8503337 01/14/22 02:07 AM
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The application here is not securing two components together, but the application of compression to hold another object in place. Using loc-tite in an aviation application, on thin gauge metals under constant vibration is not the same application as applying compressive strength to hold a scope in place by two objects made from billet metal. My preferred brand, Warne, does recommend the use of a thread locker on a base to a receiver. This is a totally different application than applying compression on two rings to hold a scope in place. The foreign matter in the threads adds about 20% to the torque. If you tighten rings to 25" lbs, with loc tite, you're at 30" lbs, which is way over published spec's of 18-20" lbs.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: onlysmith&wesson] #8503504 01/14/22 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
The application here is not securing two components together, but the application of compression to hold another object in place. Using loc-tite in an aviation application, on thin gauge metals under constant vibration is not the same application as applying compressive strength to hold a scope in place by two objects made from billet metal. My preferred brand, Warne, does recommend the use of a thread locker on a base to a receiver. This is a totally different application than applying compression on two rings to hold a scope in place. The foreign matter in the threads adds about 20% to the torque. If you tighten rings to 25" lbs, with loc tite, you're at 30" lbs, which is way over published spec's of 18-20" lbs.

Torque is a rotational force so the torque remains the same with or without thread locker. It's the clamping force that increases (torque remaining the same) if the threads are lubricated (i.e. thread locker). That is why I said not to exceed torque specs when using thread locker. It does not matter to me what others do so no skin in the game, but, what percent of those on this forum actually have and use a torque wrench when installing scope rings or bases?

Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Big Fitz] #8503563 01/14/22 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Fitz
Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
The application here is not securing two components together, but the application of compression to hold another object in place. Using loc-tite in an aviation application, on thin gauge metals under constant vibration is not the same application as applying compressive strength to hold a scope in place by two objects made from billet metal. My preferred brand, Warne, does recommend the use of a thread locker on a base to a receiver. This is a totally different application than applying compression on two rings to hold a scope in place. The foreign matter in the threads adds about 20% to the torque. If you tighten rings to 25" lbs, with loc tite, you're at 30" lbs, which is way over published spec's of 18-20" lbs.

Torque is a rotational force so the torque remains the same with or without thread locker. It's the clamping force that increases (torque remaining the same) if the threads are lubricated (i.e. thread locker). That is why I said not to exceed torque specs when using thread locker. It does not matter to me what others do so no skin in the game, but, what percent of those on this forum actually have and use a torque wrench when installing scope rings or bases?


STOP…. PSA!! Every man needs this in his safe or range bag

Fix it stick


That is all carry on


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Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: Big Fitz] #8503581 01/14/22 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Fitz
Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
The application here is not securing two components together, but the application of compression to hold another object in place. Using loc-tite in an aviation application, on thin gauge metals under constant vibration is not the same application as applying compressive strength to hold a scope in place by two objects made from billet metal. My preferred brand, Warne, does recommend the use of a thread locker on a base to a receiver. This is a totally different application than applying compression on two rings to hold a scope in place. The foreign matter in the threads adds about 20% to the torque. If you tighten rings to 25" lbs, with loc tite, you're at 30" lbs, which is way over published spec's of 18-20" lbs.

Torque is a rotational force so the torque remains the same with or without thread locker. It's the clamping force that increases (torque remaining the same) if the threads are lubricated (i.e. thread locker). That is why I said not to exceed torque specs when using thread locker. It does not matter to me what others do so no skin in the game, but, what percent of those on this forum actually have and use a torque wrench when installing scope rings or bases?

You are correct, I should have stated adds 20% to the load, as I hinted at in my original post. You add 20% to the designed in amount of force. So, if you torque to spec, and use loc-tite, you've over tightened, by a lot. If you exceed the manufacturers spec, and tighten to 25" lbs, with loc-tite, you have over tightened by a great deal, almost to the point of damaging a scope.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: onlysmith&wesson] #8503596 01/14/22 02:41 PM
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Cosmetic damage maybe. The circle is the most difficult thing to crush with 360° pressure.

Ever done the attempt to crush an egg in your hand challenge? It cannot have any cracks in it, or it will bust. I have probably watched a hundred people try it, including myself. I know only one man that can do it, but he is a bear of a man.


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Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: J.G.] #8503611 01/14/22 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Cosmetic damage maybe. The circle is the most difficult thing to crush with 360° pressure.

Ever done the attempt to crush an egg in your hand challenge? It cannot have any cracks in it, or it will bust. I have probably watched a hundred people try it, including myself. I know only one man that can do it, but he is a bear of a man.

Chuck Norris could do it, but he doesn't have to. They break out of respect for him.

Last edited by onlysmith&wesson; 01/14/22 02:54 PM.

An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: onlysmith&wesson] #8503615 01/14/22 02:54 PM
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Probably only need an index finger and a thumb.


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Re: Scope Rings Screws [Re: DANNY-L] #8504560 01/15/22 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DANNY-L
Clean, dry and 18-20" lbs.


Same. Torque wrenches make it easy.

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