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One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN #8481737 12/20/21 07:02 PM
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Minute mark 2:05

They actually thought to call this out specifically as a benefit to lead free ammo - their version incorporates Tin

The other white metal….


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8481807 12/20/21 08:03 PM
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Looking at current metal prices, tin makes copper look very cheap. What benefits would tin have over copper as a lead alternative to justify the expense?

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: 65x55] #8481816 12/20/21 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 65x55
Looking at current metal prices, tin makes copper look very cheap. What benefits would tin have over copper as a lead alternative to justify the expense?

Evidently, Tin is not only edible, but good for you in small amounts.

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: unclebubba] #8481860 12/20/21 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
Tin is not only edible, but good for you in small amounts.

Yes sir, I keep my iron tablets right next to my edible ammo on the bathroom counter. I still don't see what the fuss is about lead and why I need a lead free alternative. I see it as 82 on my periodic table of elements. I know not to eat the stuff. It's not like some toxic waste that is being manufactured, it was there before some nice people shaped it nice and conical for me. It will be there long after my grandchildren have grandchildren. Seriously, what's the problem with lead?

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8481932 12/20/21 10:14 PM
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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: garyrapp55] #8481954 12/20/21 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Seriously, what's the problem with lead?


Nothing, it's just another way for them to pick at us.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: garyrapp55] #8481970 12/20/21 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 65x55
Looking at current metal prices, tin makes copper look very cheap. What benefits would tin have over copper as a lead alternative to justify the expense?


Copper bullet performance seems to be all over the board in terms of capability. Depending on the make and model of the bullet, there are some that don't open well at lower velocities, resulting in no or poor expansion. I can't recall having seen any really frangible copper bullets for hunting. There are those that have petals that break off, but nothing like what Norma is talking about.

Does it justify the expense? That would depend on the hunter.

Originally Posted by garyrapp55
[quote=unclebubba]Seriously, what's the problem with lead?


The problem with lead is that it is a toxic metal, bad for wildlife, bad for humans, bad for groundwater, etc. People like to debate how much of a problem it is, but there are not benefits to consuming lead and it has a long half life in the body. In the wrong quantity, any metal is poisonous in the body. With lead, any quantity is poisonous when ingested (consumed, inhaled). After that, it is just a matter of how much damage is done.

I like the benefits of lead ammo for hunting as well, but it does come with consequences.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8482501 12/21/21 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
The problem with lead is that it is a toxic metal, bad for wildlife, bad for humans, bad for groundwater, etc.

Is it any worse for groundwater than it was before it was turned into a projectile? I'm willing to learn. I'm remaining open minded. The lead was there already though. It's a pre-existing element, not a manufactured toxin. What am I not seeing?

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: garyrapp55] #8482819 12/21/21 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
The problem with lead is that it is a toxic metal, bad for wildlife, bad for humans, bad for groundwater, etc.

Is it any worse for groundwater than it was before it was turned into a projectile? I'm willing to learn. I'm remaining open minded. The lead was there already though. It's a pre-existing element, not a manufactured toxin. What am I not seeing?


Worse for ground than it was before being turned into a projectile? It is when it is introduced into areas that don't have lead. Lead is not ubiquitous across Texas. https://coastal.beg.utexas.edu/txmineralresources/#!/ Except for a few natural localities, lead in other areas has largely been introduced by humans. We have done a lot of bad stuff over the last couple hundred years when it comes to the handling, use, and disposal of lead products. Gun ranges can be particularly bad in this regard. https://static.ewg.org/reports/2001/LeadPollutionAtOutdoorFiringRanges.pdf

In the grand scheme, this is a very minor consideration, but is still a consideration. If I recall my geology correctly, lead is generally stable when bound naturally in other minerals. The problems come in when it is smelted and summarily allowed to oxidize.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8482845 12/21/21 05:06 PM
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Alright, I'll buy that.

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8483019 12/21/21 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted by 65x55
Looking at current metal prices, tin makes copper look very cheap. What benefits would tin have over copper as a lead alternative to justify the expense?


Copper bullet performance seems to be all over the board in terms of capability. Depending on the make and model of the bullet, there are some that don't open well at lower velocities, resulting in no or poor expansion. I can't recall having seen any really frangible copper bullets for hunting. There are those that have petals that break off, but nothing like what Norma is talking about.

Does it justify the expense? That would depend on the hunter.

Originally Posted by garyrapp55
[quote=unclebubba]Seriously, what's the problem with lead?


The problem with lead is that it is a toxic metal, bad for wildlife, bad for humans, bad for groundwater, etc. People like to debate how much of a problem it is, but there are not benefits to consuming lead and it has a long half life in the body. In the wrong quantity, any metal is poisonous in the body. With lead, any quantity is poisonous when ingested (consumed, inhaled). After that, it is just a matter of how much damage is done.

I like the benefits of lead ammo for hunting as well, but it does come with consequences.





Are you talking about Metallic lead or soluble compound/industrial lead?


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: garyrapp55] #8483020 12/21/21 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Alright, I'll buy that.



Don’t!!! Research it your self!!! Lead studies vary greatly when using different forms. .

Only highly toxic studies tend to be certain birds of prey, but those are even being questioned now.

The lead in your brake pads and it's dust is way more dangerous then metallic lead shot


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8483040 12/21/21 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Alright, I'll buy that.



Don’t!!! Research it your self!!! Lead studies vary greatly when using different forms. .

Only highly toxic studies tend to be certain birds of prey, but those are even being questioned now.

The lead in your brake pads and it's dust is way more dangerous then metallic lead shot


Way more dangerous to you, not to raptors. I think most arguments against lead projectiles are B.S., but the research on lead poisoning in birds of prey seems pretty legit to me.

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: SherpaPhil] #8483053 12/21/21 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Alright, I'll buy that.



Don’t!!! Research it your self!!! Lead studies vary greatly when using different forms. .

Only highly toxic studies tend to be certain birds of prey, but those are even being questioned now.

The lead in your brake pads and it's dust is way more dangerous then metallic lead shot


Way more dangerous to you, not to raptors. I think most arguments against lead projectiles are B.S., but the research on lead poisoning in birds of prey seems pretty legit to me.


Correct, but it jumps around species wise a bunch in the birds of prey. It should be noted that birds of prey also fall under federal protection status in general via Migratory Bird Treat Act. At the time of lead bans for Migratory Birds, the Bald Eagle had ESA, MBTA, and Bald Eagle Act protections. Potential litigation of eagles ingestion of metallic lead shot single handley got lead waterfowl shot banned.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8483068 12/21/21 09:25 PM
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Barnes TTSX. Problem solved.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: QMC SW/EXW] #8483076 12/21/21 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by QMC SW/EXW
Barnes TTSX. Problem solved.



They are great if you run them light and fast, but do poorly at lower impact velocities.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: QMC SW/EXW] #8483140 12/21/21 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by QMC SW/EXW
Barnes TTSX. Problem solved.


Can’t eat them - that’s the point of this post …


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8483161 12/21/21 10:47 PM
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I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: ErnestTBass] #8483459 12/22/21 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.


No. The funny thing is, if I duck hunt 50 yards from my fence line on Lake Whitney, I have to use steel shot, but I can blast away at doves with lead shot over the water it's perfectly legal. The whole anti lead concept is from animal rights folks. USFS was dumb enough to listen to them.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: ntxtrapper] #8483543 12/22/21 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.


No. The funny thing is, if I duck hunt 50 yards from my fence line on Lake Whitney, I have to use steel shot, but I can blast away at doves with lead shot over the water it's perfectly legal. The whole anti lead concept is from animal rights folks. USFS was dumb enough to listen to them.


They didnt have choice. They where facing heavy litigation from Bald eagle peeps. At time the Bald Eagle had multiple federal protections including Endangered Species act. It was never about ducks. Studies have shown lead shot has no significant population effects. But Eagles it is supposedly highly toxic.

Cali has entire state lead ban based off one bird.


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: ErnestTBass] #8483595 12/22/21 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.


If you are shooting big game with lead core bullets, you are eating some lead. Folks have x-rayed animals after the shot , and found tiny lead fragments scattered throughout the carcas. Now, in humans, metallic lead passes through our digestive system pretty much unchanged and unabsorbed. It's not a significant health threat.

The legit argument against lead is that a bird of prey that eats that gut pile will ingest lead, and that is toxic to them. They absorb metallic lead and do get and die from lead poisoning.

Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: SherpaPhil] #8483605 12/22/21 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SherpaPhil
Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.


If you are shooting big game with lead core bullets, you are eating some lead. Folks have x-rayed animals after the shot , and found tiny lead fragments scattered throughout the carcas. Now, in humans, metallic lead passes through our digestive system pretty much unchanged and unabsorbed. It's not a significant health threat.

The legit argument against lead is that a bird of prey that eats that gut pile will ingest lead, and that is toxic to them. They absorb metallic lead and do get and die from lead poisoning.


Yelp or dead/wounded ducks..


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: Pig_Popper] #8483607 12/22/21 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Pig_Popper
Originally Posted by QMC SW/EXW
Barnes TTSX. Problem solved.


Can’t eat them - that’s the point of this post …


Via their weight retention you will be hard pressed to eat any Cooper or monolithic bullets


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Re: One companies solution to meat polluted by lead bullets, tin is IN [Re: ErnestTBass] #8483707 12/22/21 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ErnestTBass
I mean ... are we really eating any lead? Any appreciable amount of lead? I've never even heard this mentioned. Does not strike me as a real problem.


Yes we are. How much of a problem is it? It is probably more of a problem for developing children than adults, but can be a problem for adults.

https://www.ehn.org/lead-ammunition-in-meat-2645108170.html
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(16)30021-3/pdf
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wild-game-deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban/


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