Anyone who has spent much time in these forums knows that one of the most divisive topics is the importance of fouling and barrel break-in in maximizing rifle accuracy. On one side you have what I call the "fouling group" (pun not intended) that follows the belief that because no barrel can be made perfect, some fouling is necessary to ensure accuracy. Now what's surprising is that those in the other, what I'll call the "break-in group" would agree with this to a point, that being that it's impossible to manufacture a perfect barrel. As I understand it, their differences rest in how members of the two groups view the imperfections that can be expected even with the best manufacturing processes in place. More specifically, while members of the first group see fouling as the way to overcome these imperfections, the later group chooses to believe most if not all these imperfections can be worn away through a properly followed break in process. Once this is done, the POI of a clean, cold bore shot will show little or no difference than those made after it. With no need the foul the barrel, the rifle that can be stored away with a clean barrel for long periods of time with no worries of corrosion or "pitting" inside the bore. It's probably because of my strong focus on preventive maintenance that I made the decision long ago to the follow the beliefs of the break-in crowd, which includes rifle makers (Weatherby is a good example) and several of those who only make custom barrels.

Just for grins, I recently went to the range to fire a three-shot group from my newest rifle that I put through a break-in process. It's a Savage Model 110 and I was using Winchester factory ammo (125-grain, Deer Season XP) using only a front rest in order to duplicate hunting conditions. The target distance is 90 yards, even though Carter's post it as being 100 yards. The goal was to see if I should have any worries that I might miss a buck on Opening Day by carrying a clean barrel to the woods. Based on the results, if it happens I can honestly say it won't be because of the rifle or the ammo.

Which is the first, clean bore shot is of little consequence given the results. I'm sure a better shooter using custom ammo could produce a much tighter group. But for those who might be interested, #2 is the clean, cold bore shot.

It's funny how unaware and how little you interpret the things people tell you.

Good luck this season.

As a footnote, perhaps a point on which the two groups probably agree is that copper buildup is something that must be addressed in the long term once accuracy begins to suffer, albeit with a clean or fouled barrel.

Same to you.

There is also such a thing as mapping the clean cold bore shot. Every rifle is different just like every rifleman’s required precision is different. Fouling the barrel takes that variable out of the equation is why most that go that route do it. Not every shooter or rifle shoots well enough or has the need or desire to capitalize on the utmost precision. Different horses for different courses without casting stones is my view. Good luck this season Dan.

Dan, Sometimes I think you pontificate and debate just to hear yourself. You don't care whether you are right or wrong, as long as you are in disagreement with the majority, therefore giving you a reason to debate. I believe that you are literally the ONLY person who thinks it is a good idea to go in the field with a perfectly clean and oiled bore. And yes, at 90 yards with most rifles, it will not matter. Good luck this season.

Funny this should come up right now. Recently, when I shot my old Sako 270, the accuracy seemed a bit off. So, I decided to clean the bore today and see how it would shoot. It’s always been a very accurate rifle. There was a good bit of copper and carbon fouling, but I got it out and ran a few dry patches through the bore. Walked to the shooting bench and cranked the first cold bore clean shot 1” high, which is exactly where I like it, then put two more right there. I’ll go into the season with slightly fouled bores on all rifles, as usual, but the 270 (which I’ve had since the 80’s) doesn’t seem to care if the bore is cleaned or lightly fouled. Most of my rifles, however, will lose accuracy when fouled a bit too much. How much is too much varies with the rifle.

So, bottom line is that I always go hunting with lightly fouled barrels, but I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary for all rifles.

I thought this thread would be about cold bore repeatability and how to minimize variance in cold bore shots.

Alas it is about a 3 shot group at 90 yards .

Can I get my money back on the admission fee for this thread

A rifle with clean, cold bore accuracy offers the hunter a more distinct benchmark than having to wonder if the fouling is enough or too much when hitting the woods time after time. Simply put, if it's clean it's on.

Not all rifles are the same, some like a bit of fouling and others run well clean Bottom line you need to find out what your gun likes with the ammo that will be used.

Want to really check it, do not count one one clean barrel shot, do it over time and cleanings with multiple range trips. . Same with cold bore shots.

Something you should see when breaking in ANY new barrel is a tightening of the POI for each CCB shot with each successive series of shots and cleaning. This only makes sense as the barrel wears to a more perfect state. Those who just buy a new rifle, clean it, and then shoot it until accuracy drops will never see this progressive improvement in CCB accuracy.

But an imperfect barrel can also wear to an IMPERFECT state over time. You might be smoothing one area while making another area worse.

Not correct at all.

Fortunately, most rifles will shoot pretty good no matter what you do or don’t do, with the exception of oiling the bore. Burnt oil forms carbon, and while the copper jacket of a bullet isn’t hard enough to damage a hammer forged steel barrel, enough carbon in the mix can do damage. Furthermore, you can’t get oil out of the bore with just a few dry patches! So my two-cents worth is clean, or don’t clean the bore all you want to, but don’t ever put oil down the bore!

I decided a long time ago that this goal was way too difficult for me. That's why I always foul a barrel immediately after cleaning. Why make something harder than it needs to be?

Now for benchrest guys, maybe. I'm not into that world, so I really don't know.

I agree Jason, Of 50 plus new rifles I came to the conclusion barrel breakin is a waste of time and ammo. Some of those are easily sub half MOA and stay that way through hundreds of rounds, others much less and one by 25 shots accuracy was going to pot. That one would copper foul very quickly and it's first group ever shot was .125 center to center at 100 yards. That has not been repeated but numerous groups under .15 inches starting with a clean dry barrel. Fouling is expected though or at least by me when you are running bullets at 4250fps verified with chrono and bullet drop. That rifle I switched to loads with CFE223 and can go 50+ loads without cleaning now before accuracy suffers to half MOA or a little over. I tried some of its original loads after 300+ rounds and it still will shoot them tight but only for about 20 rounds.

Dan that is what I mean rifles are unto them selves and now we hit a tangent with this thread about that first shot from a clean rifle.

Okay here is my secret. I clean my bore when it needs it & finish by coating the bore with silicon sprayed on a loose patch. It seems to protects the bore from rust & the first/cold shot is just as I left it. All I can say is, try it for yourself.

Sometimes there is no point of even arguing.

I once had a bunch of rifles, before they all got sold or lost or I can't recall, and for the most part they would all shoot with good accuracy without frequent cleaning. Same experience for me as has been said above, when accuracy diminished, it was time to clean. But my wife had a custom 7-08 that would only shoot about 6-7 shots to less than MOA before it successively got worse, regardless of how cold the barrel was. That gun needed a perfectly clean barrel to be accurate. Always bugged me that I had to clean that gun so often, but that is what it wanted. So, again, similar to what what was said above, every gun can be different.

Agree

I guess every village has one though

This saves time even considering the admission P_P

I've written all the words one possibly can on the subject. I've replied tons of times, and done it for years now. He's either a troll, or just plain dumb. I am not going to repeat myself for the tenth time. It doesn't sink in to his brain, or he's just bored and is looking for entertainment. Back to the troll word.

Think I have four rifles to shoot for other people next week. But what do I know?

I think I’ve explained the reasoning behind why Weatherby and several custom barrel makers strongly recommend breaking in their new barrels. Several have disagreed the process provides any true value.

Anyone care to explain why?