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Sika question????? #8376183 09/06/21 03:38 AM
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StephensCnty308 Offline OP
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I’m looking at going on a Sika hunt This year and I have seen Dybowski's sika and Manchurian sika

What is the difference and which one would be the best to shoot trophy wise?

I know all animals can have different characteristics however I know usually one breed is more hunted over others.

Thanks

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8376560 09/06/21 04:52 PM
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The (true) Dybowski sika are much larger in body and antler size than the Manchurian, Japanese, or Formosa sika. The ones sold here in TX as Dybowski are often red deer/sika crosses.

They taste the same, but the Dybowski (and red deer/sika hybrids) are more expensive.


Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius
Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8376635 09/06/21 06:20 PM
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www.priourhuntingranch.com

100% Dybowski

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Give John a call (Ranch Manager) 830-459-3749

Re: Sika question????? [Re: PriourHuntingRanch] #8377043 09/07/21 01:44 AM
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Thank you both for your responses !!!!!!!!




Wow very nice Sika up above !!!!

Originally Posted by PriourHuntingRanch
www.priourhuntingranch.com

100% Dybowski

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Give John a call (Ranch Manager) 830-459-3749

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8377289 09/07/21 11:21 AM
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Mike Savoy Offline
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Manchurian

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Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8377294 09/07/21 11:26 AM
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Mike Savoy Offline
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Dybowski

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Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8377373 09/07/21 12:54 PM
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Mine is a free range Japanese Sika from a low fence ranch near Sonora TX that Muley Mike offered on here a few years ago. I wanted the Japanese Sika because I like the smaller size, and I like that it's totally different then my Red Deer, or anything else that I have on the wall. When looking at different hunts, I saw a lot of Sika/Red Deer crosses being offered as pure sika deer, and one guy had young Red Deer pictures being offered as world class Sika Deer. It just got more and more ridiculous in what was out there that wasn't a pure Sika Deer and how hard it was to find them.

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Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8377420 09/07/21 01:34 PM
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Eland Slayer Offline
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Sika are an endless source of confusion and misinformation, particularly in Texas. Firstly, there are approximately 14 subspecies of Sika Deer....which all originate from Southeast Asia. They have also been introduced to the UK, New Zealand, Australia, and of course the United States (probably other places I'm forgetting as well).

All of the Sika subspecies can interbreed with each other, and they can also interbreed with both Red Deer and Elk, making things infinitely more confusing. I've seen hunts in Texas advertised for Japanese Sika, Dybowski Sika, Manchurian Sika, Formosan Sika, etc.....but in all reality, VERY few ranches in Texas have verified pure herds of any particular subspecies. The Priour Ranch (posted above) is one of the few that I would consider having true Dybowski Sika.

Basically, in Texas you will find "Big Sika" (usually referred to as Dybowski or Manchurian) and "Little Sika" (usually referred to as Japanese). Then you have folks crossing them with Red Deer to make their "Sika" look bigger, which in my opinion is highly unethical and utter BS (I know someone who does this).

Another thing that is ironic.....nearly everyone in Texas will refer to the small, dark subspecies as "Japanese Sika". However, if you look at photos of actual Sika in Japan today (which I assume are the original native variety), they are literally twice the size of ours (both body size and horn size). So I suspect what we call "Japanese Sika" are actually not the variety from Japan.

I'm sure this made someone's brain hurt, so I apologize.

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8377479 09/07/21 02:32 PM
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I agree with you Wade. We call the sika what the ranch calls them. The Manchurian came from the Patio and the dybowski from the San Carlos.

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8378156 09/08/21 01:07 AM
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The small dark bodied sika could be descended from Kerama Island sitka which are small and dark. There are also two sub species of sika on the main islands one could be larger then what you typically think of as Japanese sika.


for every stereotype there's a prototype
Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8378550 09/08/21 01:37 PM
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do they all taste good?


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Sika question????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #8378557 09/08/21 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
do they all taste good?


As far as I know.....YES!! grin

Re: Sika question????? [Re: EddieWalker] #8378960 09/08/21 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieWalker
Mine is a free range Japanese Sika from a low fence ranch near Sonora TX that Muley Mike offered on here a few years ago. I wanted the Japanese Sika because I like the smaller size, and I like that it's totally different then my Red Deer, or anything else that I have on the wall. When looking at different hunts, I saw a lot of Sika/Red Deer crosses being offered as pure sika deer, and one guy had young Red Deer pictures being offered as world class Sika Deer. It just got more and more ridiculous in what was out there that wasn't a pure Sika Deer and how hard it was to find them.

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Very nice sika


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8378969 09/08/21 08:27 PM
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Is there a solid way to tell a difference between a cross and a pure bred Sika? I bought a handful for my place a couple years ago that were sold to me as Dybowski Sika. He's a tank of a deer and this year will be close to 28-30" main beam length. I've often heard about crosses being sold as pure bred and I felt pretty comfortable with who I was dealing with but wanted to get an opinion.

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Re: Sika question????? [Re: nsmike] #8379111 09/08/21 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by nsmike
The small dark bodied sika could be descended from Kerama Island sitka which are small and dark. There are also two sub species of sika on the main islands one could be larger then what you typically think of as Japanese sika.


I shot this buck on a low fence property that had an regional isolated herd.

This is what is commonly known as a “ Japanese “ sika....small, very dark and smaller horned. Earlier in the year he did have spots but as the year progressed he and other bucks got darker. Some of the does retained their spots. Japan as I understand it has several subspecies and the sika has 28 overall subspecies with some reaching over 300 lbs

[Linked Image]


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Sika question????? [Re: Black02z28] #8379644 09/09/21 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Black02z28
Is there a solid way to tell a difference between a cross and a pure bred Sika? I bought a handful for my place a couple years ago that were sold to me as Dybowski Sika. He's a tank of a deer and this year will be close to 28-30" main beam length. I've often heard about crosses being sold as pure bred and I felt pretty comfortable with who I was dealing with but wanted to get an opinion.

[Linked Image]


You just kinda have to eyeball them. To my eye, the buck in your photo definitely looks 100% Sika to me. When they cross Red Deer with them, they have a certain look (which you can just tell if you've seen enough of them). Also, Red Deer don't have spots during the summer like Sika do....so that's a dead giveaway if they have no spots or very diminished spots. Your buck has very pronounced spots.

Another thing to look at is the coloration on their butts around their tail. Sika usually have more of a pure white patch, whereas Red Deer have more of a pale tan/brown patch.

Re: Sika question????? [Re: txtrophy85] #8379647 09/09/21 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by nsmike
The small dark bodied sika could be descended from Kerama Island sitka which are small and dark. There are also two sub species of sika on the main islands one could be larger then what you typically think of as Japanese sika.


I shot this buck on a low fence property that had an regional isolated herd.

This is what is commonly known as a “ Japanese “ sika....small, very dark and smaller horned. Earlier in the year he did have spots but as the year progressed he and other bucks got darker. Some of the does retained their spots. Japan as I understand it has several subspecies and the sika has 28 overall subspecies with some reaching over 300 lbs

[Linked Image]


Brandon, that is still one of the biggest free-range "Japanese" Sika I have ever seen. Hoss!!

Re: Sika question????? [Re: Eland Slayer] #8382589 09/12/21 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Eland Slayer
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by nsmike
The small dark bodied sika could be descended from Kerama Island sitka which are small and dark. There are also two sub species of sika on the main islands one could be larger then what you typically think of as Japanese sika.


I shot this buck on a low fence property that had an regional isolated herd.

This is what is commonly known as a “ Japanese “ sika....small, very dark and smaller horned. Earlier in the year he did have spots but as the year progressed he and other bucks got darker. Some of the does retained their spots. Japan as I understand it has several subspecies and the sika has 28 overall subspecies with some reaching over 300 lbs

[Linked Image]


Brandon, that is still one of the biggest free-range "Japanese" Sika I have ever seen. Hoss!!





Found this guy posted on a fb page.
People claim it’s a Manchurian!
Is this Manchurian , Dybowski or cross as y’all speak of it?

Just getting an idea

Thanks

[Linked Image]

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8383005 09/12/21 06:11 PM
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Let's go Hunting.....

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Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
Re: Sika question????? [Re: LuckyHunter] #8383527 09/13/21 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyHunter
Let's go Hunting.....

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What kind of Sika is the top picture you posted above ?

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8383951 09/13/21 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by StephensCnty308
Originally Posted by Eland Slayer
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by nsmike
The small dark bodied sika could be descended from Kerama Island sitka which are small and dark. There are also two sub species of sika on the main islands one could be larger then what you typically think of as Japanese sika.


I shot this buck on a low fence property that had an regional isolated herd.

This is what is commonly known as a “ Japanese “ sika....small, very dark and smaller horned. Earlier in the year he did have spots but as the year progressed he and other bucks got darker. Some of the does retained their spots. Japan as I understand it has several subspecies and the sika has 28 overall subspecies with some reaching over 300 lbs

[Linked Image]


Brandon, that is still one of the biggest free-range "Japanese" Sika I have ever seen. Hoss!!





Found this guy posted on a fb page.
People claim it’s a Manchurian!
Is this Manchurian , Dybowski or cross as y’all speak of it?

Just getting an idea

Thanks

[Linked Image]


I would need to see a different angle on him to tell for sure (preferably head-on). But I would not be surprised if that one has some Red Deer in him.

Re: Sika question????? [Re: Eland Slayer] #8384611 09/14/21 02:37 AM
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Out of curiosity I know you said you would have to see another angle but what part in this animal do you say that looks like red deer?
I’m learning I guess you can say

Coloring or size?

I don’t know sika well obviously

Thanks for replying

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8385194 09/14/21 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by StephensCnty308
Out of curiosity I know you said you would have to see another angle but what part in this animal do you say that looks like red deer?
I’m learning I guess you can say

Coloring or size?

I don’t know sika well obviously

Thanks for replying


From that one photo, the main thing that I see is the coloration of his rump. Most Sika have a more white rump, with Red Deer having a tan rump. But maybe it's just the lighting, or his butt was dirty lol.

He also looks to have a pretty blocky head....but it's nearly impossible to tell anything for certain from that angle. I will say, if he is pure Sika (which is entirely possible), he is a STUD!

Re: Sika question????? [Re: Eland Slayer] #8385591 09/15/21 03:10 AM
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Thanks for your reply. Like I said I’m learning Sika haha
I know search shows pictures of sika but with the way folks breed
These things who knows.

Thanks for the info

Re: Sika question????? [Re: StephensCnty308] #8385847 09/15/21 02:51 PM
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Not a great pic, but here are the white rumps that Eland was talking about

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