Forums46
Topics538,477
Posts9,737,523
Members87,089
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
Barrel Inspection
#8326697
07/21/21 12:20 AM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,226
papa45
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,226 |
Ever since a gunsmith let me look through his Hawkeye borescope, I thought it would be fun to have one, except for the huge price. Now that digital USB borescopes are available for $50-100, I bought one. It's interesting, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at...white lines, black lines, lands that are shiny in one area and get dark elsewhere. I see a good bit of cracking in one of my favorite rifles. How much is too much? It still shoots well.
I need a little "Borescope 101." I haven't been able to find any pictures to identify common issues or what to look for. Can someone point me in the right direction?
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326742
07/21/21 01:02 AM
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,987
TAB
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,987 |
This is some Vudoo back magic in its own right, but what you can do with the at home borescope is verify you have a clean barrel. Black streak icing with solid black rings especially in the neck/ throat area is carbon, sometimes you can see some small half moon shaped copper pieces stuck in the carbon. Fire cracking starts immediately and is noticeable mostly in the throat within the first 100-200 rounds you’ll start to see a regular pattern develop. Most folks don’t need a bore scope because they will make one paranoid and you’ll buy a new barrel!
If a barrel still makes good velocity, and is grouping well keep shooting it till it falls apart.
I use my teslong borescope to verify I have done my job cleaning especially during a deep clean where I’m trying to remove carbon.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: TAB]
#8326759
07/21/21 01:24 AM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,226
papa45
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,226 |
Most folks don’t need a bore scope because they will make one paranoid and you’ll buy a new barrel! Yes! I've already warned myself about that. Thanks for the feedback.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326822
07/21/21 02:30 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,222
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,222 |
I don't have a bore scope, and have never used one.
If it's not far enough barrel life to be shot out, and it's not quite shooting like it should, I clean it.
Then I foul it back in, and use it. If the day comes it's shooting bad before and after cleaning, and the round count says it's on the edge of being shot out, it gets replaced.
Just gotta know how your rifle shoots.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326854
07/21/21 02:59 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639 |
One thing learned from the Bore scope is what works to clean a barrel and what doesn’t. Most folks including me thought that once I went from black to grey to white patches my barrel was free of carbon. Bore scope shows how wrong that assumption is. Heck I used to worry about copper but I rarely see copper in my barrels mainly because of higher quality barrels these days. Hard carbon in the throat and first few inches of the barrel is tough to get out and doesn’t show on patches at all. All these liquid cleaners do is make It shinier Here is an ongoing thread that explores it pretty well with pictures of barrels with scopes. https://forum.accurateshooter.com/t...oat-removal.4039316/page-8#post-38125800
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326969
07/21/21 12:19 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
Here’s the link to a YouTube video that reviews what is perhaps one of the best bore scopes on the market. Lots of good info for those like me who know nothing about them. Definitely something that can take your level of knowledge to a new level, given you learn all you can about how to read and use what it tells you.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 07/21/21 12:53 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326985
07/21/21 12:44 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,071
Buzzsaw
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 34,071 |
Teslong makes several, affordable bore scopes
Agree with Dstroud om Carbon. If you will just clean the carbon out at the range while its still "fresh" (warm). When it cools, its like ceramic glass VERY HARD.
This is true for you 22lr rimfire shooters. just clean immediately after shooting, focusing on the throat to prevent any carbon ring build up. you don't have to remove all the bullet lube and lead till accuracy falls off
SPACE FOR RENT
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8326990
07/21/21 12:50 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239
blkt2
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,239 |
A friend of mine is a locksmith that specializes in high security safe penetrations. Years ago he upgraded his scopes and I started using his old scopes to inspect barrels. What I found is that not a single product on the market except for something called wipe free will clean every deposit out of the barrel.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8327003
07/21/21 01:04 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235
wp75169
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235 |
Teslong makes several, affordable bore scopes
Agree with Dstroud om Carbon. If you will just clean the carbon out at the range while its still "fresh" (warm). When it cools, its like ceramic glass VERY HARD.
This is true for you 22lr rimfire shooters. just clean immediately after shooting, focusing on the throat to prevent any carbon ring build up. you don't have to remove all the bullet lube and lead till accuracy falls off I was just looking at teslong. Is a $99 scope good enough to see what needs to be seen? If so I’m going to order one. Their pictures suggest it’s all that. Teslong Rifle Borescope with 4.5'' Screen, 0.2inch Gun Cleaning Camera Fits .20 Caliber & Larger Hunting Shooting Firearms, Gun Barrel Scope with Ring Lights, Right Angle Mirror & 36'' Camera Probe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BJT2Z38/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_0H766DNAMMFSE2B100RX?psc=1
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327071
07/21/21 01:40 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,197
LonestarCobra
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,197 |
I have had a Hawkeye for many years with its main purpose to look inside of engine cylinders and QA some parts we make. I got the bright idea to look at one of my barrels once, I didn't like what I saw so I put it up and haven't looked at one since. The gun shot really good, and I still go with the Firemans way of determining what shape the barrel is in.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: LonestarCobra]
#8327090
07/21/21 01:53 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,570
garyrapp55
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,570 |
I got the bright idea to look at one of my barrels once, I didn't like what I saw so I put it up and haven't looked at one since. The gun shot really good, and I still go with the Firemans way of determining what shape the barrel is in. Smart. If it ain't shooting bad, don't mess with it, that's my philosophy anyway. I've heard that more damage is done to barrels from guys cleaning than from shooting. I'm not looking to make extra mistakes.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327099
07/21/21 02:03 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235
wp75169
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235 |
I had a hard bolt lift and pressure signs on a few of my brass at the last match. Someone suggested it may be a carbon ring. I’m buying the scope for the reason you stated, I don’t want to over clean if it’s not necessary.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327281
07/21/21 05:23 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
I'm sure a good bore scope can tell many stories for those who have a sincere interest in learning how to use it and interpret the images.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 07/21/21 05:25 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327366
07/21/21 07:08 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,991
angus1956
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,991 |
I have the Lyman Bore Scope and happy with it's performance. Don't use it all the time but nice to have.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327514
07/21/21 09:50 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
I would be interested to know if anyone who has been using a bore scope for some time has seen evidence of a correlation between barrel quality and performance. Or, to out it another way, have you seen a barrel that appeared lower quality under the scope, actually shoot better than one that didn't?
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327560
07/21/21 10:24 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,207
Tbar
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 15,207 |
I like my Teslong USB scope......
Make America Great Again
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8327756
07/22/21 01:57 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639 |
I would be interested to know if anyone who has been using a bore scope for some time has seen evidence of a correlation between barrel quality and performance. Or, to out it another way, have you seen a barrel that appeared lower quality under the scope, actually shoot better than one that didn't? I have looked down the barrels of two Savage rifles that were tack drivers and the inside of the barrel looked like tiny beavers gnawed a hole down the barrel.....chatter marks the entire length covered with shiny copper. One was a .223 that several folks tried to buy it after shooting it. I killed a lot of coyotes with it before finally letting a friend buy it and he still has it.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: DStroud]
#8327759
07/22/21 02:00 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,222
J.G.
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,222 |
I would be interested to know if anyone who has been using a bore scope for some time has seen evidence of a correlation between barrel quality and performance. Or, to out it another way, have you seen a barrel that appeared lower quality under the scope, actually shoot better than one that didn't? I have looked down the barrels of two Savage rifles that were tack drivers and the inside of the barrel looked like tiny beavers gnawed a hole down the barrel.....chatter marks the entire length covered with shiny copper. One was a .223 that several folks tried to buy it after shooting it. I killed a lot of coyotes with it before finally letting a friend buy it and he still has it. Back to why fouled barrels shoot good. But you can't tell Dan that.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: J.G.]
#8327781
07/22/21 02:21 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
I would be interested to know if anyone who has been using a bore scope for some time has seen evidence of a correlation between barrel quality and performance. Or, to out it another way, have you seen a barrel that appeared lower quality under the scope, actually shoot better than one that didn't? I have looked down the barrels of two Savage rifles that were tack drivers and the inside of the barrel looked like tiny beavers gnawed a hole down the barrel.....chatter marks the entire length covered with shiny copper. One was a .223 that several folks tried to buy it after shooting it. I killed a lot of coyotes with it before finally letting a friend buy it and he still has it. Back to why fouled barrels shoot good. But you can't tell Dan that. Correct. Any barrel that was never properly broken in should be left fouled to compensate for the imperfections that were never adequately addressed. I've never really thought about it but I suspect a bore scope in the hands of someone well versed in it's use, could identify how a new barrel responds to the break in process. But then, that very thing has probably already having been done, pointing to why so many recommend the process. Yes Fireman, perhaps that's at least one of the reasons why you've never considered buying a bore scope and spending time to learn how use it.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 07/22/21 03:25 AM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8327791
07/22/21 02:28 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,193
Bee'z
The Beedazzler
|
The Beedazzler
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 23,193 |
I would be interested to know if anyone who has been using a bore scope for some time has seen evidence of a correlation between barrel quality and performance. Or, to out it another way, have you seen a barrel that appeared lower quality under the scope, actually shoot better than one that didn't? I have looked down the barrels of two Savage rifles that were tack drivers and the inside of the barrel looked like tiny beavers gnawed a hole down the barrel.....chatter marks the entire length covered with shiny copper. One was a .223 that several folks tried to buy it after shooting it. I killed a lot of coyotes with it before finally letting a friend buy it and he still has it. Back to why fouled barrels shoot good. But you can't tell Dan that. Correct. Any barrel that was never properly broken in should be left fouled to compensate the imperfections that were never adequately addressed. He is going to set a record for epic failure of the year with his content. Stimpy has more brain cells at this point lol.
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327840
07/22/21 03:28 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235
wp75169
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,235 |
Amazing. Holy [censored].
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327858
07/22/21 04:08 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,966
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,966 |
Are texas dan and mathgeek brothers?
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327865
07/22/21 04:17 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639
DStroud
Extreme Tracker
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,639 |
I don’t have much of a pro or con opinion on an elaborate break n process. But after looking down broach cut barrels that are visually rougher than say hammer forged or button rifled ones that I have looked at when new I can see why some don’t settle down until a few rounds have been fired thru them. My point was that unless you see some glaring issue that a Bore scope won’t tell if the barrel is a shooter or not. I had one so far that I saw an issue that gave me insight to what my problem was. It was a CZ and it had two gouges about halfway down the barrel that literally filled up with hard carbon and looked like a drop of asphalt was in my barrel. Patches and brushes wouldn’t touch it. Had to get the JB out to remove it. It had started shooting worse and worse but once cleaned would do well for about 30 rounds then it started with fliers again.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
|
|
|
Re: Barrel Inspection
[Re: papa45]
#8327996
07/22/21 01:02 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,270 |
One thing is certain, that such a valuable learning tool would be quickly viewed as useless by those who already know everything.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 07/22/21 01:53 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|