Mods can move this if it just has to be in the Varmint sub-heading.

'Just got back from the TWA conference and one of the seminars was on predator contests. There's a big one up the road from my ranch. I really don't have a dog (pun possibly intended) in this fight, partly, 'cause I'm older, lazy, and don't wanna stay up all night trying to pop stuff. I do know a neighbor, sort of caretaker gentleman, said that his son participates in some sometimes and he used to come on the place I now own to get his 5 required fox, in order to qualify for the bobcat category. Even I've noticed, there's a LOT of fox. 'Wanting to get the one quail a year I hear to a point where I can at least see and hear them regularly, this gives me a little concern. (No illusions of hunting them here, just want to see and hear them.)

What I thought was gonna be a discussion was instead a presentation of a film by Project Coyote (you can google it) titled "Killing Games". Both the woman that introduced the guests and the woman that runs Project Coyote have a definite rockstar attitude and the young director is understandably brash and confident, since, as he proudly announced, is able to travel the world with a camera filming wildlife. (He gave us his upcoming itinerary. Yes, impressive, but... ).

As far as production, it's slick. Gorgeous pics of coyote pups, beautiful bobcat sound asleep in a tree, etc. Gotta give the ACTUAL videographers credit - some incredible shots and inspiring footage. Being an old music major, I listen to how films include sound, music etc. It's very well done. Great music and cool audio of wolf, adult coyotes, and, of course, video and audio of 4 or 5 pups howling without any adults around. 'Gotta be a robot to not think that's cool footage. What I noticed they did NOT include was the audio (or video) of coyotes killing a whitetail deer fawn. I've heard it. More than once. But of course, that would not help their cause. (I've got too many deer and do understand that nature is an ice-hearted witch. And coyotes do, however, play a role in God's created nature. )

I didn't make any comment during the question period following. I didn't want to be confrontational. The few that know me on here would probably think that's very unusual. The crowd was very polite and articulate. If anyone was confrontational, it was the introducer answering a TPWD biologist. Some of us can see through your veiled aggression lady.

One thing that struck me was the Project Coyote's founder's use of language during the Q&A period. When someone asked about ground-nesting birds and predators' impact, she answered with a rambling, mumbled response that passingly mentioned "song birds" and included the nebulous term "science". That last word - does it sound familiar to anybody? If you're gonna reference "science", you need to be prepared to cite actual research, including studies that your audience can actually look up for themselves. That is, if you've done the hard work of research and not just letting your cause be piloted by emotion. Like many other words that are being used during this current period in American history, some expect the use of it to immediately stop all discussion or questions, like a magic wand.

The second thing that struck me was the 4 or 5 times, in the film and in their speech, that referenced what 4 or 5 states have already done to outlaw these contests. Of course, the first state mentioned was...you know it...wait for it...yep...California. Bless their hearts, they just don't have the awareness to realize that, if you want to accomplish something in this state, mentioning what "other" states have done, and especially mentioning the state that people are fleeing like rats from a drowning ship, is only gonna make us dig in our heels more. We have gotten a few things right here. Those idiots laughing and high-fiving when they shoot something may be disgusting, but by golly, their OUR disgusting idiots. And, they're humans. And we're gonna proceed cautiously 'cause we believe in a man, or woman's right to do what HE or SHE feels is right in this state on private property.

End of rant. Discuss?

(I do credit the TWA for the guts to host a controversial subject and to not just go the easy route. It is something we need to discuss as ethical hunters.)

The one thing I took from my grad school days is that science has been weaponized. Manipulate your variables just enough, you can get them to say whatever you want them to say.

I learned many years ago "that facts don't lie, but liars make up the facts"

Originally heard about this months ago on Lonestar Outdoor Show. Predator hunting and competitions are def under attack by the crazies that want to make us look like the crazy murderers

Why would TWA allow this type of seminar if it goes against a majority of members beliefs?

There are a lot of hunters that think they are above the average hunter. Most think it’s wrong to do anything they don’t like tot do. Letting hogs lay and having predator tournaments are just a couple.

Exactly. You can take "the data" and present them in two different ways and come up with two different conclusions, e.g. any documentary regarding what "diet" you should eat. Watch one and you'll be convinced, by actual data, to eat only vegetables and carbs. Watch another and you'll be convinced, by actual data, to only eat protein and fats. Hard to trust "science" nowadays.

If you torture the facts long enough, they'll tell you anything that you want to hear.

The chief source of error in any study is data.

Detailing the intent of an opposing side is often beneficial. Let them there predator idjits show their arse.

Yes I remember Cable bringing it up a few times, if I recall correctly he had one of the guys who was in the doc. on that show where he went deep into it. I do remember it being mentioned the guy making the doc pretty much lied to some of the people about what he was exactly doing.

Not the first time.

Won't be the last.

We have hunted, trapped and used poison to rid the country of coyotes. They are still here and will be forever. Most anyone associated with rural America knows they are a detriment even though they may have a place in the eco system. I will shoot the next one I see.

Good write up Creek.

Good job on explaining this Creek. I was watching another presentation so I didnt see this one. I do have a little insight into it from sitting in on an advisory committee meeting that morning. The Killing Contests was not the topic of the committee meeting but it did come up. It was obvious the topic wasnt new to them which meant they didnt go into much background so I was left to wonder a little. What I did gather was that they knew it would be controversial. Im glad Creek gave TWA some credit for tackling it. I think Huds comments about the importance of knowing the "enemy" is right on. The film is out there whether anyone likes it or not. The opinions of the film makers are out there and they are shared by many nonhunters as well as hunters. Im involved with TWA but no longer in a capacity to know what they may be thinking, but Im pretty sure they wanted the members to know what was going on, for better or for worse. Creek can correct me, but Im pretty sure no one from TWA stood up and officially supported or condemned the film or its message.

It was obvious that the good ol' boy (and I use that term with the best possible connotation) was tricked for the "ride along" footage. If the director pulled that crap with the bastard poachers in Africa, there'd be a contract so fast it would make your head spin. I wish no ill towards the kid whatsoever, but he's got that very early Geraldo Rivera attitude that can get him hurt.

What’s funny is these activists cling to one study that shows limited effect from culling coyotes, except states like Utah and private ranches in texas can blow those studies out of the water.

ain't that the truth!

Exactly. I haven't picked a hog up in years but I kill as many as I can.

The film sounds like trash Disney has aired for decades.