I'm just giving a historical example of a friends ranch in Mason. Four 222’s that I bet in past 60’ish plus years have killed well over a 1000 deer. Really it's probably Alot more when you factor doe culling years

In the right hands most likely the case.

I don't know why we continue to argue calibers. We damn near shot 99% of our wild extinct with black powder.

Another one for the 223. Back in the early 70's I bought a 722 Remington in 222 and had it re-chambered in 223. Back in those days furs were bringing a premium and a blown up pelt was worthless. Sierra was making some thin skinned 50's that really come apart at anything over 3,000 fps, I ran them at 3,300 fps and never once had one exit a coyote or a cat. I got the rifle for daylight hunts where distances were getting out past what I was comfortable with using the 22-mag (Still the best pelt saving caliber I've found). Hide prices went down and I ended up setting it back in the closet until the early 90's when a friend wanted me to go clear out a Prairie Dog town on his place by Garden City. Don't know how many I took but I do know I had to replace the extractor twice, third time it broke I set it back in the closet and it sits there now. During all that I got a wild hair and cut and crowned the barrel taking about 2 inches of it's 26 inch length and replaced the factory stock with a cheap fiberglass throw in the re-chamber and any collector value is lost. This thread has me thinking about breaking it back out and letting a buddy of mine give it the once over. It may come back to life as a 204 but my fondest memories of it will always be in 223. That old rifle made me a lot of money!

My only regret I have on this rifle was not leaving it stock.

I won't mention any names (RIP) but I know an old boy who took plenty of deer and even a few elk with a 22 rim fire and this was long before all the new hot loads, I even know of one black bear taken with the same caliber and rifle. It was a different time but there was always meat on the table, when your feeding 5 kids that was important! A lot of pheasant and grouse blessed the plates also! Give me a 22 rim fire and the freedom to take what I need and the freezer could overflow.

Great chat guys! I appreciate the info.

I don't doubt it at all.

An 18-25 year old today, first building up his arsenal. There is no point in seeking out a .222 over a .223, is all I'm saying.

Oh, ya I see what you are saying don't disagree

You two....I started laughing at twinkle nuts

It is a black bull barrel

22-250 and done.

Been reading this thread and sums up my thought. I'm definitely not 18-25 but I stared shooting as a adult. So somewhat from a blank slate, it was hard for me to see a better overall option than 223. In fact a friend of mine inherited a 222 and he too started shooting as an adult. He wishes it was 223 primarily for ammo purposes. I guess it makes it worse for him that I'm totally set up for 223, which would further help him.

Asked before and ask rhetorically again...is the 223 just too boring for people? I'm not quite getting 1" @ 300yds. I have gotten 1.5" a few times with a nice load.

I was a bit snobby towards it, since I've been shooting .22-250 for many years. I had quite a bit of experience with .22-250 hand loads, but not .223 Rem hand loads. That is not the case now. I've hand loaded for several Cars, and several bolt actions chambered in .223. Now I have seen what it can do, and it is pretty dang salty for as plain vanilla of a cartridge as it is. In these trying times of loading component crisis, I'm probably going to finish shooting out my .22-259 barrel, and just be done with the cartridge. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. Large rifle primer, more expensive brass, and quite a bit more powder. .223 can't make the speed of .22-250, but grain of powder for grain of powder .223 makes more speed, i.e. it is mor efficient (better fuel mileage).

And then we can add a hand loader only cartridge, the .223 A.I. That little dude hits way outside it's weight class.

My hand load data:
.22-250 24" barrel 55 gr SGK 3780 fps MV
.22-250 24" barrel 75 gr A-Max 3200 fps MV
.223 A.I. 24" barrel 80 gr ELD-M 3080 fps MV (and doing it with 33% less powder than .22-250)
.223 Rem 24" barrel 69 gr SMK 3200 fps MV

I know those bullet weights don't match, but it still paints a pretty clear picture.

I doubt I would ever consider a .224 caliber cartridge other than 223 rem. Unless your are chasing speed, nostalgia, or intentional obscurity, it just seem to be the clear winner to me.

I think I've owned 3 .223's...worthless caliber to me and I've sold them all. If I need something of that nature, I'll take a hot .224 (like a Swift) or 6br with a light bullet. I can't really justify that line of thought, I personally just never been a fan and can't really explain it.

Good trainer cartridge if you are worried about burning too much powder...I rarely pay a whole lot attention that that.

Everyone should own a 22-250. You never know when you will need to shoot through steel.

You're dead to me.

I could sure see the want for one, but i need to figure out how to sell a gun before i buy any more and i like the rest of mine more than I wanted a 22-250

Small calibers can be lots of fun.

Other than 22s which are fun, these are as well:
CZ 452 Varmint 17 Mach II, Remington 700 Classic in 17 Remington, Browning 1885 22 Hornet, Contender in 218 Bee and Marlin 1894 25-20 are the ones I consider real small and all serve their purposes. The 17 Remington is my favorite coyote rifle for 350 yards and in, just something about 25gr bullets a 4250fps that group under 1/3 MOA that works wonders on yotes.

Bolt action 223s CZ 527 and Remington 788
TC Encore 22-250
Remington 700 with a 27 inch 22-243 is my heavy 22 cal for speed and it does well with 75 and 80gr pills and RL 26 for generating speed and on deer and hogs.

I'm cheap enough that it's always a consideration for me. Must pay well to be a Creedmoor spokesperson...don't worry about powder costs, buying a new lathe, wiping your rear with benjamins.

But he has to put up with you and I so it's awash.

223 with a fast twist barrel is a great do all imo.

The person u should really feel sorry for is my wife. Haha. What helps ease her burden is making her some killer ammo. Btw, the 223 tikka I'm talking about is actually hers and she loves that rifle/load combo.

Does she still shoot better than you do?