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Antique handgun ID help needed...
#8237085
04/15/21 12:50 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237087
04/15/21 12:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Grandad had a Colt that the barrel swung away like that.
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237099
04/15/21 12:59 PM
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wp75169
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: J.G.]
#8237104
04/15/21 01:02 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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No idea but that would be close. Grandad had a Colt that the barrel swung away like that. The only marking I found were a four digit SN on the bottom of the grip. I have not removed the wood grips yet.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237128
04/15/21 01:12 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: wp75169]
#8237149
04/15/21 01:22 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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Thomas Bacon was a former machinist of Allen and Thurber. His independent arms making starts when founding the Bacon and Company. His single-shot percussion pistol became one of Manhattan's initial offerings. In 1857 one year after the association with Manhattan he left the company not amicable and a lawsuit resulted.
His new company the Bacom Manufacturing Company was founded in 1858. This company produced percussion revolvers which were based on the design of Bacon and Joseph Gruber. In 1863 Charles Converse, the largest shareholder, forced Bacon out. The company than continued for several yeas until Converse and a few Bacon employees formed the Hopkins & Allen Company.
Bacon himself created the Bacon Arms Company but sold his intersts already in 1865. This firm continued under other management until 1888. The machinery was sold to Crescent Arms Company.
The Bacon Navy was based on C. W. Hopkins patent of May 27, 1862
.31 percussion caliber, 5 shot pocket revolver, 4", 5" or 6" octagonal barrel, made from 1866 to 1868
.31 percussion caliber, 5 shot pocket revolver, 4", 5" or 6" round barrel, made from 1866 to 1868
.32 r.f. caliber, single shot pistol, spur trigger, 4" or 5" octagonal trigger, flush fitted recoil shield, made from 1862 to 1868
.22 r.f. caliber, pocket revolver, spur trigger, 2 1/2" octagonal barrel, made from 1862 to 1868
.25 r.f. caliber, pocket revolver, spur trigger, 2 1/2" octagonal barrel, made from 1862 to 1868
.32 r.f. caliber, pocket revolver, spur trigger, 4" octagonal barrel, made from 1862 to 1868
.32 r.f. caliber, pocket revolver, with trigger guard, 4" octagonal barrel, made from 1864 to 1868
.32 r.f. caliber, pocket revolver, spur trigger, swing out dylinder, 4" octagonal barrel, made from 1860 to 1867
.38 r.f. caliber, Navy revolver 1st Type (remove cylinder by pulling out the front lever), spur trigger, 7 1/2" octagonal barrel, made from 1860 to 1865, based on Charles W. Hopkins patent 35,419
.38 r.f. caliber, Navy revolver 2nd Type (knurled disc at rear of cylinder), spur trigger, 7 1/2" octagonal barrel, made from 1860 to 1865, based on Charles W. Hopkins patent 35,419
.38 r.f. caliber, Navy revolver 3rd Type (swing out cylinder), spur trigger, 7 1/2" octagonal barrel, made from 1860 to 1865, based on Charles W. Hopkins patent 35,419
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237178
04/15/21 01:42 PM
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J.G.
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I just sold a whole bunch of rimfire ammo. And some would fit in that little pistol. If you try to find ammo for it, it is extremely expensive. $3 a round is the low end.
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237185
04/15/21 01:47 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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That's crazy. Not sure I want to shoot it....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237243
04/15/21 02:20 PM
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angus1956
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For me that would go in a display case, not a shooter. Nice find.
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237755
04/15/21 08:16 PM
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skinnerback
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237778
04/15/21 08:26 PM
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John2
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One of my friends had one like that but I think it was brass.They lived in a very old house and said they found it down by the creek.
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237813
04/15/21 08:41 PM
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John2
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Not all those that wander are lost..
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: John2]
#8237881
04/15/21 09:24 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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You may be right. It looked a lot like the Bacon pistol but not exact. I was thinking it may have been an early one before more refinements. This is the Bacon This is the Brown And mine....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: John2]
#8237900
04/15/21 09:38 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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Formative rimfire cartridges had been known since the 1840s, and the introduction of Smith & Wesson's No. 1 revolver chambering the .22 Short really got the ball rolling. Larger calibers, such as those seen in Spencer and Henry Rifles, not to mention some handguns, soon evolved. By the early-to-mid 1860s a practical melding of small pistol to large caliber appeared in the guise of the Moore single-shot Derringer and the .41 Short cartridge.
The Moore/National Arms, a handy all-metal pistol that slipped easily into one's trouser, coat or waistcoat pocket, became so popular it was later made by Colt and spawned a vogue that resulted in a large number of other .41s. The .41 Short Rimfire was no barn-burner in the ballistics department, with its light blackpowder charge pushing a 130-grain lead bullet at 425 fps, producing an anemic muzzle energy of some 53 ft.-lbs.
One of the Moore follow-ons, the "Southerner" Derringer was a neat little turn-barrel pistol. Its name, emblazoned on the top of the barrel, was obviously intended to appeal to buyers south of the Mason-Dixon line, though incongruously it was manufactured in Newburyport, Mass., by Merrimack Arms and Brown Mfg. Co. Perhaps it was the makers' attempt at letting bygones be bygones-though probably it was just a very clever marketing ploy.
Standard Southerners measured 5 inches overall and had 2 1/2-inch iron barrels, spur triggers, walnut or rosewood grips and either iron or brass frames. Some 6,500 were made between 1867 and 1869 marked on their barrels, "MERRIMACK ARMS & MANUFACTURING CO/NEWBURYPORT/MASS/PATENTED APRIL 9, 1867." Another 10,000 were turned out from 1869 to 1873 by Merrimack's successor with their barrels stamped, "BROWN MANUFACTURING CO/NEWBURYPORT, MASS/PAT APR.9, 1869."
Barrels were blued, and iron frames were either blued or case-hardened. Brass frames were silver-plated. Sometimes engraved, ivory-gripped specimens of both will be encountered. While most Southerners had square butts, there were a small number made by Brown with rounded grips and 2 1/2- or 4-inch barrels. These are scarce and do bring a premium. A small number of seconds were sold with their frames marked "IMPERFECT." These, too, have added value.
Interestingly enough, like the one shown here, a large proportion of Southerners encountered exhibit considerable wear, indicating they definitely were carried. Given their small size, ease of use, good engineering and pleasing, ergonomic configuration this is understandable.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/5/29/southern-derringer/
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237923
04/15/21 09:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
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TXHOGSLAYER
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LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8237937
04/15/21 09:58 PM
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John2
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After looking at the trigger it's possible it could be a Hopkins and Allen XL derringer.
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: John2]
#8237947
04/15/21 10:01 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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After looking at the trigger it's possible it could be a Hopkins and Allen XL derringer. Not the same butt and frame on the grip. I think its a Southerner....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: John2]
#8240400
04/17/21 06:32 PM
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SnakeWrangler
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I did some more looking and you nailed it....thank you Sir!
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Antique handgun ID help needed...
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8246183
04/23/21 03:44 AM
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huntwest
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You may be right. It looked a lot like the Bacon pistol but not exact. I was thinking it may have been an early one before more refinements. This is the Bacon This is the Brown And mine.... I would say yours is definitely a well patined Brown. Except for the patina yours is exactly the same gun. Down to the shape of the trigger metal extruding from the spur.
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