Not looking to start a fight or ruffle any feathers here just wondering, what’s the logic behind shooting 70 grain plus .22 caliber bullets? Is there any benefit in shooting a 70-80 grain .22 caliber bullet over that of a 6mm bullet in the same weight class?

Higher BC for shooting farther, and not getting wind drifted as bad as lighter bullets.
Higher sectional density for hunting.
More foot pounds of energy at most, or all ranges.


This holds true for almost all caliber bullets. Look at a 7mm 195 gr Berger EOL at 3000 fps MV. Then look at a .308 Berger Elite Hunter or VLD-Hunting 200 gr at 3000 fps MV. Run them both out to your chosen distance, in a ballistic calculator, and see what you see.

They work better in my in 223 than a 6mm bullet.

Generally a 80 gr .224 bullet is going to have a higher BC than a 80 gr .243 bullet. If both are fired at the same velocity the higher BC bullet will out perform the lower BC at long range.

Even if the larger diameter has a velocity advantage, it will only offset the lesser BC for so far, unless the advantage is really large at which point you're paying a price in fuel/components, bore life, and behind the weapon.

So let’s say you have a 223 rem shooting 72 grain bullet and a 243 win shooting a 72 ish grain bullet (number are off head and not specific), a 223 rem, shooting the same weight bullet as a 243 Winchester, will ballistically out preform the 243 Winchester even though the Winchester would have a very clear velocity advantage?

Eventually, yes.

Look at the BC of both for shooting far.

Look at the sectional density of both for terminal performance inside an animal.

And the 70 gr .223, in a 24" bolt action is capable of +3000 fps MV. So it certainly isn't slow.

These are two factory rounds I grabbed off Midway. This is for a 90 degree 20MPH wind.

Hornady .223, 77gr, 2800 FPS .372BC vs .243, 80gr, 3300 FPS .300BC

These are in inches

300 yd drop - 13.8, 9.6
600 yd drop - 95.1, 72.8
900 yd drop - 300, 293

300 wind 15.8, 16
600 wind 72.2, 74.9
900 wind 187, 201.4

The .243 is flatter, of course, due to it's speed, but at 900 yards it's almost even, and for LR shooting you'll be dialing for height in either event. But even with its speed advantage, the larger bullet is getting pushed further by the wind almost out of the gate. Horizontal is much harder to correct for than vertical because wind is never constant.

Look at your twist rate as well. Some rifles like a heavier bullet than a lighter. Case in point, my LWRC prefers a 72 gr over a 55 gr -- tighter group, less wind shift as noted above, and it works better for varmint hunting when there is a variety of animals.

To me number prove more than anything.



First of all a little odd to compare 223rem bvs 243win because the 243 will have higher case capacity, ie can hold more powder. More more fair comparison is something like 22-250 vs 243 OR 223 vs 6mmx45.

That said attached is a litte chart I put together. Basically a more detailled version of what QSYB shows. The ballistics data is taken from the Berger website.
https://bergerbullets.com/ballistics-calculator/

The 70gr vld is a load out of my 22" 223 Tikka bolt rifle, maybe a little bit slower than 3000 but close enough. The velocity for the 68gr 6mm bullet was from Nosler load data and 35000fps was on the faster side.
if you compare the numbers, then drops/elevation out to about 800 yards is very similar. But notice the windage difference. Both these wree calculated with 10mph @ full 9 o'clock value. At the same

Notice how past 800 yards, the difference are more pronounced because the formula causes the lighter 6mm to lose velocity faster at further distances. This is a 70gr bullet. I'd imagine a 80gr bullet in a good 22-250 would beat any 6mm at the same weight class. And by beat I mean in terms of accuracy down far range and probably hunting too.

Good info

Just using two of most common rounds for a base line

So does this same principle hold true for all the common chamberings when compared? Also what about people who build a fast twist rate 22 cal rifle to hunt with? Would you see any advantage shooting whitetale at 100-150 yards with a 22 cal shooting heavy for caliber bullets over a 6mm lite for caliber bullet?

Apples to apples comparison, 22-243 with 75 gr Swift Sirocco at 3400 the velocity I run it at thought in the 27 inch barrel I could run it at 3500fps+ and 75gr Hornady 243 bullet at the max velocity listed in Hodgdon reloading data center of 3600fps. In the 22-243 I have run 90gr Bergers at 3250fps but had to get to there in my barrel for any level of accuracy at 100 and it fell out of favor by 300 yards, just not enough spin.

22-243 Sirocco 75gr BC .419


243 BC Hornady 75gr BC .330


These 2 cartridges use the same case, the 22-243 is just a 243 necked down to shoot a .224 bullet. The Sirocco is a good hunting bullet for that speed and I have shot through both shoulders of a 175lb buck at 10 yards with it and a hog about the same weight at 278 yards through both shoulders. Like that bullet for hunting in that chambering.

Understood. To me even as you compare 223 vs 243 (with 243 having case capacity advantage), I'd rather shoot my 70gr in 223 over a 243 on the light end. This concept is a little hard to wrap one's mind around initially. An exaggerated example, but with the same amount of of my arm power I'd rather throw a javelin vs a football (assuming I can grip and throw on, which I can't) of the same weight if the target is far enough. Especially on a windy day. Looking at raw numbers like others provided, kmon has another great comparison, was the best way for me to see it. It really does come down to wind. Hypothetically, if the rifle-ammo setup was good enough, then elevation effectively doesn't matter as long at you know the distance to target. At some known distance it's a known drop for any bullet.
Crunching wind number is kinda useless in a sense that there is no way to ever know the wind behavior precise enough across the whole bullet travel as it varies versus time and distance. But at least you know from the numbers whatever the wind conditions are, the wind will have less impact on the higher bc bullet over any given distance. To me on a practical level, that just means the bigger 243/6mm caliber bullet will amplify more any wind call mistakes more than the same weight but smaller 22 cal.

Good line of inquiry to pursue. Starting here made me looking into finding out how exactly how the ballistics formulas work; G1 vs G7 and stuff like that. I found it fascinating and collected some very technical articles. Most useless on a practical level but still a good read.
I believe in this instance that seeing would be believing, at least it was for me. If you find yourself in Houston, hit me up. I have a 243 but not really "tuned" in a sense that it's a cheap factory rifle with factory ammo, but I do have a 223 that I love and shoot/reload for often. Very unfair sample comparison, but would be glad to let u shoot a few if you're really that curious.

The most simple way to look at this is bullet length.

A 70 gr .243 (6mm) is short and fat. Low B.C.

To make a. 224" bullet be 70 gr, you have to make it longer. And if it is a bullet made to be pointy, it will have a higher B.C.

My first .22-250 barrel was the usual 1:14, so I could only run as heavy as a 55 gr. The B.C. was .240, pretty poor. The MV was 3780 fps, but it went sub-sonic at 600 yards. The new barrel is. 1:8. I'm running 75 gr A-Maxes. B.C. .435 MV 3200 fps. It goes sub-sonic at 1100 yards. Not that I've shot it that far, but it does way better in the wind out to 600 yards than the 55's.

Muzzle velocity gets you off the start line, ballistic coefficient gets you to the finish line.

HA, i'm gonna remember that one.

When you’re dealing with smaller calibers sectional density becomes very important in my opinion. Unless it’s a premium bullet, a 70g 243 is not going to penetrate very well.

Good explanation.

Agreed, powder charge should always be included in any discussion that compares the down range performance of any two or more loads.