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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8183679 02/25/21 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by S.A. hunter

I would tell Texas, No and to go figure your chet out...... it probably wouldn't be too popular around here, but thats how I feel.


So that 133.4 Billion a year paid in Federal Taxes, isn’t to be spent on Texans.

Sweet send it to Another country for gender studies...


Sometimes its gotta hurt in order to learn...... Its not like this was unforseen. In 2011 Ercot brought this up after some blackouts..... the state didn't follow through on them. Why should people in other states pay for our incompetence. We wanted to be big boys, well then we should act like it....

Last edited by S.A. hunter; 02/25/21 04:34 PM.
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8183691 02/25/21 04:34 PM
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The board members did not hurt. How any of them lost power? confused2


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: bill oxner] #8183694 02/25/21 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bill oxner
The board members did not hurt. How any of them lost power? confused2

Bill bang

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8183701 02/25/21 04:42 PM
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Long time TFFer posted this on the same subject.

Originally Posted by machinist
Having spent 35 years working at gas fired power plants, I can say that the damage caused by a low frequency blackout would probably take a couple of months to repair. The biggest problem in trying to repair things is parts availability. None of the plants keep any inventory on hand like they did 25 or 30 years ago. Next would be the manpower. Knowledgeable people are not standing on the curb waiting on a job and every plant would need them.
I talked to the control operator at the plant where I worked about 15 minutes after the power went off and he was still so shook up he could hardly talk. And this guy has been a control operator for 20 years and has just about seen it all.


Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: S.A. hunter] #8183706 02/25/21 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by S.A. hunter

I would tell Texas, No and to go figure your chet out...... it probably wouldn't be too popular around here, but thats how I feel.


So that 133.4 Billion a year paid in Federal Taxes, isn’t to be spent on Texans.

Sweet send it to Another country for gender studies...


Sometimes its gotta hurt in order to learn...... Its not like this was unforseen. In 2011 Ercot brought this up after some blackouts..... the state didn't follow through on them. Why should people in other states pay for our incompetence. We wanted to be big boys, well then we should act like it....



There is a lot of mistakes made, but under current regulations and budgets some where bound to happen. I hope regulations via EPA and oversight get fixed first.... this mess started there.

You can only pay the cards you were dealt. You need the right cards upfront,

Regardless that’s Texans’ money.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8183719 02/25/21 05:00 PM
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"There is a lot of mistakes made, but under current regulations and budgets some where bound to happen. I hope regulations via EPA and oversight get fixed first.... this mess started there.

You can only pay the cards you were dealt. You need the right cards upfront, "


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8183725 02/25/21 05:05 PM
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I love arm chair quarter backs.

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: wp75169] #8183736 02/25/21 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
I love arm chair quarter backs.


It’s one giant interconnected tree of mistakes.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8183755 02/25/21 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by wp75169
I love arm chair quarter backs.


It’s one giant interconnected tree of mistakes.


I prefer to call it a house of cards that was doomed to collapse once offline power generating plants and gas transmission lines were not properly winterized for severe cold.

I've learned that whenever the US Weather Service uses words "historic" and "catastrophic" in their predictions, you would be wise to believe them and start doing what needs to be done to protect your interests. There's little question the weather modeling tools now at their disposal have become quite accurate.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 02/25/21 05:35 PM.

Dan

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8183873 02/25/21 07:31 PM
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Yes I believe the power grid was about to go down. We were warned well in advance of the cold snap blackouts were coming. We were told the power grid could not supply the demand that was imminent. Many did not heed the request to limit power consumption as much as possible. Downtown Houston stayed lit up like a Christmas tree. Frankly I am appalled by the number of Texans that turtled up rather than prepared to ride it out and are now looking for someone to blame Mother Nature on. More money from the consumer is what it will take to ensure it does not happen. How much insurance are the people willing to pay for is the first question to be answered. Nowhere in the bill of rights are we guaranteed electricity. Unless you have a contract with a power company to supply you a specified amount of electricity, all accounts are square when you pay your bill. Yet so many are calling for government involvement to fix it. Pussification, divisiveness, and entitlement are ruling the day. stir


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: Smokey Bear] #8184091 02/25/21 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
Yes I believe the power grid was about to go down. We were warned well in advance of the cold snap blackouts were coming. We were told the power grid could not supply the demand that was imminent. Many did not heed the request to limit power consumption as much as possible. Downtown Houston stayed lit up like a Christmas tree. Frankly I am appalled by the number of Texans that turtled up rather than prepared to ride it out and are now looking for someone to blame Mother Nature on. More money from the consumer is what it will take to ensure it does not happen. How much insurance are the people willing to pay for is the first question to be answered. Nowhere in the bill of rights are we guaranteed electricity. Unless you have a contract with a power company to supply you a specified amount of electricity, all accounts are square when you pay your bill. Yet so many are calling for government involvement to fix it. Pussification, divisiveness, and entitlement are ruling the day. stir


Agreed


Something clever here
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8184244 02/26/21 02:01 AM
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Years ago (late 80's maybe) during extreme cold spells facilities that had high usage were cutoff or told to throttle back gas and electricity usage, and they did. This round of cold some facilities like American Airlines center, other event centers, schools, universities, etc. kept their usage about the same. WTH? That could have helped out alot.

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: S.A. hunter] #8184641 02/26/21 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
A non scientific common sense approach would be, why would the company charged with keeping the grid safe, admit that it was 4 minutes and 26 seconds away from a complete failure If it wasn't true?


I agree

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8184698 02/26/21 04:07 PM
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How exactly, does a Power Grid collapse for an entire state?

It’s all about power generation... right? Does power for the entire state come from one generator?

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8185453 02/27/21 04:27 AM
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When I went to work for Tx Electric Service Co. at Graham Plant in 1978 there were 23 gas fired plants in the Tx Utilities System.
That was TPl, DPL & TESCO. Today there are 3 gas fired plants. There were 4 lignite plants Monticello, Big Brown, Martin Lake & Sandow with plans to build 2 more. One out side Athens and one at Grosbeck. There was no Comanche Peak yet. Today there 2 lignite plants Martin Lake and Oak Grove which was built at Grosbeck around 2006. Now include Comanche Peak and a couple plants they got when they merged with Dynegy a couple of years ago and you have Vistra Energy. So all of this generation that has been shut down and torn down(that is to keep from paying taxes on the plants) has been replaced with renewable energy: windmills and solar.
Now if you have never worked in the electric power industry or know how turbines, generators, sub stations work and or how electricity is moved on transmission/distribution lines or know what vars have to do in moving power then you have no idea what really took place or why.
I will agree it was a cluster after the power went off but what happened to save the grid was 100% the way it had to work to save the system.

Last edited by machinist; 02/27/21 04:29 AM.

some people like silver and gold
I like brass and lead with a little powder in between
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8185473 02/27/21 05:02 AM
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From a friend that is a retired AEP electrical Engineer . The chart is from the link above, he sent me the chart and wrote the following. As he said, this is the "dumbed" down version for us common folks.

[Linked Image]

The critical part is the pink area below the line at 59.4 Hz. I gather that the ERCOT system is set up so that if the system frequency stays in that area for more than 9 minutes, transmission level breakers open and the grid comes apart. That's the total collapse they're talking about. Subtract the length of time below 59.4 Hz from 9 minutes and you get the 4 minutes, 37 seconds ERCOT quoted.


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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8185482 02/27/21 05:33 AM
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Here at Graham in the 90’s we were put in the black start plan. When we hit 59.5 hertz/cycles it set the timer in to play for the generator safety scheme. If in 90 seconds if the frequency has not came up our generator tripped off the grid. At that point we carried our own auxiliaries. Those are things like pump motors, FD fan motors, BFP motors, switch yard, etc. we could do this for a couple of hours. The point was to give the transmission dispatchers time to route us to Wichita Falls where there was a glass company that had a gas turbine generator they could get on to start putting power back on the grid. If you don’t have some way to get power when you go black you can’t start back up. It would take a lot of the Harbor Freight 3,500 watt generators to start one of our 4,160 volt 4,000 HP boiler feed pump motors to put water in the boiler.
Add to that low frequency trips are very hard on equipment and do tear things up. The last number I saw was that there were something like 500 generating units in the state. That’s a lot of repairs.


some people like silver and gold
I like brass and lead with a little powder in between
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: ndhunter] #8185490 02/27/21 05:58 AM
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BS

Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: Homer Jay] #8185685 02/27/21 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Homer Jay
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Thank You Mister Homer


some people like silver and gold
I like brass and lead with a little powder in between
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8185742 02/27/21 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
My source is common sense. No way we were 277 seconds away from complete blackout.

If so, what made it all good all of the sudden.


That was if we hadn't started rolling black outs. Once we cut power usage we where fine.

All goes back to the EPA.... To the “T”. Way our grid was set up to what we could use etc.

*were*, not where. BOBO, if you're going to act like a 'know it all', you really should learn to spell correctly. Not a good look.


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Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: S.A. hunter] #8185745 02/27/21 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by S.A. hunter

I would tell Texas, No and to go figure your chet out...... it probably wouldn't be too popular around here, but thats how I feel.


So that 133.4 Billion a year paid in Federal Taxes, isn’t to be spent on Texans.

Sweet send it to Another country for gender studies...


Sometimes its gotta hurt in order to learn...... Its not like this was unforseen. In 2011 Ercot brought this up after some blackouts..... the state didn't follow through on them. Why should people in other states pay for our incompetence. We wanted to be big boys, well then we should act like it....

Exactly.


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: Erathkid] #8185861 02/27/21 07:43 PM
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My pool waterfall pipe busted...............who do I send the bill to?


What was washed most in 2020/21? Hands or brains?
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: fadetoblack64] #8185862 02/27/21 07:44 PM
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Maybe Red Ranger will help me out


What was washed most in 2020/21? Hands or brains?
Re: 4 minutes, 37 seconds [Re: Erathkid] #8185873 02/27/21 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Erathkid
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
My source is common sense. No way we were 277 seconds away from complete blackout.

If so, what made it all good all of the sudden.


That was if we hadn't started rolling black outs. Once we cut power usage we where fine.

All goes back to the EPA.... To the “T”. Way our grid was set up to what we could use etc.

*were*, not where. BOBO, if you're going to act like a 'know it all', you really should learn to spell correctly. Not a good look.



Thanks for the lecture, it's dually noted I just got lectured by a guy that wants to save the world from pesticides via digging up 100000’s of acres to cultivate sorghum molasses as pesticide. Brilliant liberal conservation ideology, destroy more to change something small.

If you are going to be you typical liberal degenerate hippy self, at least explain how I'm wrong?

You can't. All of our energy emissions are regulated by EPA standards put in place by Clean Energy and Recovery Act of 2009, along with about 4 other acts tossed in. If you are going to correct a know it all at least bring a legitimate reason out side of autocorrect.



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