You left out barrel life. Anyone who shoots much has an actual use for the cartridges you do not. Those hotrod rounds are great for hunting though.

I didn't leave it out, it's simply not a concern of mine. One of my buddie's has almost 1500 rounds down his 26 Nosler, that's ten times more than mine would ever see in a lifetime.

26 Nosler is an overbore. And therefore much more trouble to get to shoot tight. I dealt with two of them last year. Built rifles with Bartlein barrels. I was not impressed at how finicky they were. 28 Nosler is a great one though.

7-08 is mo betta.

Two questions.....

How can a cartridge shooting the same bullet 700FPS faster at the muzzle than another cartridge be only 577 FPS faster at 400 yards? That table doesent make sense.

I am no creedmoor super fan but how can you dog on the 7mm-08? One of the best hunting cartridges ever made.

I am curious to what you are hunting where the 7mm-08 or the .308 is considered anemic? You chasing big bull elk way back in the Bob Marshall or hunting Dall’s in the Brooks Range?

Many a mountain hunter has an ultra light chambered in 7mm-08 or .308 where their quarry can range from smallish deer to bear to Moose.

It’s a fine cartridge for hunting among a boatload of other fine cartridges for hunting.
It’s a great cartridge for long range shooting among several other great cartridges for long range shooting. At least that’s what all the LR shooters say.

Honestly, at this point I almost wish it were never invented simply because of how much it seems to clog up and derail every discussion (online or in person) about cartridges. Seriously. It’s a beatdown of monumental proportions at this point.

Some of the memes were funny though - the first 162 times I saw them.

If he were alive today I believe the 6.5 creedmoor would be the cartridge of choice for Judas Iscariot


Nog I couldn’t agree with you more about wishing it had never been Invented simply due to the amount of press it receives.

Actually heard it again last night. A guy was talking about his Creedmoor in a restaurant to his buddies, one of them ask him what the rifle was he said “it doesn’t matter, it’s a Creedmoor “. I thought it was sarcasm at first but they went on to near argue about it.

Not going to respond to your first question since you should be able to figure that one out on your own. Now as far as the other question that one is easy it's called the 7mm Remington Mag and the 300 Winchester mag. Give me an honest reason why you would carry anything less.

Most people say recoil. It doesn’t bother me a bit but that’s what most people say. My mountain rifle is a .300 WSM that weighs 7.5 lbs all in.

I’ll keep my .270.

That seems to be what it comes down to most of the time, I've never paid much attention to it. My first deer rifle was a 30-06 and I only weighed about 65 lbs at the time. I believe it was close to 9 lbs scoped.

I agree for a hunting only rifle none of that is a factor and if you can shoot it without flinching bigger is not a negative. I said it earlier, but I’ll say it again, people who enjoy shooting do not want or need the extra recoil, expense of ammo or reloading components, shortened barrel life, etc. I benched my 375 H&H for 30-40 rounds once, the recoil finally overcame my love of shooting. If you don’t like to shoot and want to kill them deader, by all means, magnum away.

I certainly get that. And that response is common, see it all the time. The only issue I take with that response is assumed within it is that a larger caliber brings nothing additional to the table even in a hunting application except more recoil and muzzle blast (“kill them deader”, etc.). Which simply is not true for reasons which should be obvious, but I’ll go ahead and state: larger calibers push larger bullets at the same or similar speeds as smaller calibers push smaller bullets. This can provide several advantages to the big game hunter - especially one who might pursue larger big game. Most know we aren’t really talking about a .375, which is not necessity for most game in NA except for perhaps the big bears. But a .300 or 7mm Rem Mag or such can open up some more options in the field over a smaller caliber like a 6.5 Creedmoor especially as the quarry gets bigger. That’s just the fact.

Often I also see folks say “You can kill any elk just fine with a 6.5 Creedmoor or a (insert smaller caliber)!” True response, but incomplete and not the point. You will have more options in the field hunting larger game with a larger caliber. All else being equal (the rifle weight is same/similar and the extra recoil not an issue), I like having more options in the field.

I do carry a .300 win for things like Elk, Moose, Bear, etc.

But if you are just hunting whitetail there are a laundry list of cartridges suitable to the task without muzzle blast and recoil of a 7mm rem mag or .300 win.

I’m a big fan of magnum cartridges....when they make sense. I guess my real question was, what are you hunting that is prudent to carry a magnum cartridge?

To be honest I would feel a bit rediculous shooting a whitetail with my .300 win unless that was all I had available

I've pretty much settled on the 6.5 in Creedmore and Grendel for a lot of my hunting......but I don't think there is such a thing as the ultimate caliber for hunting. There are lots of calibers that are efficient enough without having to compare them to others. I shot a couple deer this year with a Grendel and it worked just fine. I shot another with a lightly loaded 45/70 that did a nice job and another with a 38/55 that also worked just great. No such thing as the greatest cartridge for hunting as far as I am concerned.

Well put Stony.

My deer rifle is the same Sako .270 I’ve has since I was 15 (I’m 56 now). It’s all I’ll probably ever use for deer here in TX, but even so I’ve wished for a .30 caliber a few times on the big boar hogs. I simply don’t get all the talk these past few years as if a .300 Win Mag or 7 mags are cannons. They are not. Sure a .300 recoils twice as hard as a .243. But that’s really like saying a robin weighs twice as much as a sparrow. It’s just not that big a deal for hunting.

P.S. The word “magnum” is misleading as heck. It’s just a word.

NP nobody said it was a big deal for hunting. My argument was to the man saying if it’s not a magnum he has no use for it. I’ve done some hunting with large magnums when needed and at times when it wasn’t needed. There’s a place for them, I just can’t imagine where it’s needed for most hunting in the US and only exotic hunting in Texas.

And if you tell me how a magnum is needed for pigs, I’ll tell you about how many I’ve killed with the 45 Colt.

I killed a bore once probably pushing 250 or so with a 22lr buckmark pistol at 15 yards

Magnums definitely not required!

However there’s no replacement for displacement..

One should only use what they are comfortable with in all honesty. Within the laws of game animals for sure. I have killed more deer sized game with a 243 than anything else with all honesty.

I own quite a few really nice rifles chambered in 6.5cm but my preferred caliber of choice for pretty much all of my hunting is a 7mm something or other. 7mag, 7STW or most recently 7 Practical. I want a heavy, aerodynamic bullet, moving really fast and I match my bullet type to the range and type of animal I plan on shooting. I will even carry different loads (same velocity and weight but a different bullet) for different distance shots.

reading these threads is akin to reading about thoughts in Wine Spectator

I don't know anything about Wine Spectator but I do know that for the many decades that I've been on this rock the debates about calibers, velocities, and case design have been strong and I don't see them changing in the future. Look at all the changes the black powder loads went through just to put a little more steam in the engine. Look what they did with the 45 calibers, 45 Colt all the way up to a 45-120, Velocity wasn't a friend of Black Powder so they just kept upping the charge and bullet weight, all to gain a little more horsepower. Then along comes smokeless powder and the world changed, you didn't need 400-500 grain bullets to reach those high energy levels anymore, it was about velocity from then on. The little 30-30 was producing energy levels comparable to several larger black powder rounds. Then we spend the next 100 years looking for velocity in about every caliber we could think of from a 17 to 700. The 40's were when things got interesting and when the name Weatherby was heard all around the world. Speed kills and that's what these rifles were designed to do and they did it well.
While we've always had those interested in Long Range shooting since the 1800's it just been in the last couple of decades that it's really taken off and we're seeing rifles and calibers built and designed specifically for it. What set it off I'm not sure, I could speculate but that would create a debate all it's own. While these new rifle and calibers will successfully take game their primarily design is consistency at long range and that requires a different set of guidelines sidelining many of the bullets, barrels and calibers of the past. I'm a hunter and my goal is to put a well designed bullet in the right spot as quick as I can. Now will the combination I chose to do that with work out to 1000 yards, not at all but it will get me out to what I consider my maximum range and still deliver the velocity I need to give to give the bullet a chance to do it's job. Now were you to tell me that from now on I'm shooting only steel and paper then my whole rifle caliber and bullet requirement's would most likely change. Tell me I'm going to be putting a few thousand rounds through that rifle and you'll see even more change. It's all determined by the needs and variables involved. Put those restrictions on me and a person might see me at the range with a 6.5 Creedmoor, a 7mm08 or even a 308, keep me in the field and most likely I'll be toting a magnum with Nosler Partitions.

Please read the post more carefully.

That response and the one below it about the .22 pistol proves the point I made in the post perfectly. I did NOT say a .300 Win Mag was NEEDED “to kill pigs”.

So you killed a pig with a .45 Colt. I guess that means a .45 Colt is just right when a 300 lb. boar I’ve been wanting to exterminate for 6 months steps out at 280 yards? Heck I should probably just do all my North American hunting with a Buckmark .22 since it will kill anything. It is light, handy, and has no recoil. Stupid me - toting around a rifle all these years.....

Again, all I said was a bigger caliber has more power which gives options for bigger game. That’s just a fact.

If I needed yet another expensive bad habit, I would likely pick up a 6.5.

Btw, never have I read Wine Spectator, just surmising. I promise.