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Barrel Speeding Up?
#8026691
10/28/20 01:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,221
wp75169
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How much would you expect a quality barrel to speed up as it breaks in? I have gained 65-70 fps in about 150 rounds. This seems excessive to me but I could be wrong. It’s also too fast. 7-08 with 162 Amax running 2750 out of a 22” barrel. Zero pressure signs. The speed up was actually between 100-150 rounds on the barrel.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8026698
10/28/20 01:29 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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That's pretty common also most don't trust speed until after there's 200rds on a barrel.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8026968
10/28/20 03:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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It is very common for high quality cut rifling barrels to speed up after about 75-150 rounds, depending on the caliber. I’ve seen personally multiple competition rifles speed up during this time, even during a match. You have to account for that.
It’s also hard when developing a load for a brand new rifle and you are 75-100 FPS slower than where it should be. The customer doesn’t understand it, but I tell them it will speed up after the barrel gets seasoned in, and they always do.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#8027288
10/28/20 01:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2017
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angus1956
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It is very common for high quality cut rifling barrels to speed up after about 75-150 rounds, depending on the caliber. I’ve seen personally multiple competition rifles speed up during this time, even during a match. You have to account for that.
It’s also hard when developing a load for a brand new rifle and you are 75-100 FPS slower than where it should be. The customer doesn’t understand it, but I tell them it will speed up after the barrel gets seasoned in, and they always do. Didn't know this I'll have to recheck a few rifles.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027315
10/28/20 01:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,221
wp75169
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Sounds like I need to put some more rounds down range. Saturday mid match I went from low at 3.0 to high at 2.9. I got the velocity change from running the numbers. I’m confident in my scope and mount. If it ever quits raining I’m going to run it across the crony, clean, foul, crony again.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027329
10/28/20 01:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
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Chronograph is new to me. Is the speed up observed in most rifles? Button rifled barrels?
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: redchevy]
#8027346
10/28/20 01:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,221
wp75169
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Chronograph is new to me. Is the speed up observed in most rifles? Button rifled barrels? I would assume any that are not extensively hand lapped. ASSuME. Yeah, I assume. Truth is most rifles never see 100 rounds. People buy ammo, sight in, hunt. Might take 20 years to see a speed up that way.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027367
10/28/20 02:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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Yup. Not uncommon. As dee said, I don't trust em until they have 200 rounds down em.
I had a .260 Rem that gained 100 fps shooting 130's from a 24" barrel.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027390
10/28/20 02:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,549
redchevy
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Chronograph is new to me. Is the speed up observed in most rifles? Button rifled barrels? I would assume any that are not extensively hand lapped. ASSuME. Yeah, I assume. Truth is most rifles never see 100 rounds. People buy ammo, sight in, hunt. Might take 20 years to see a speed up that way. Unfortunately i fit the bill for that now. A few years ago i shot hundreds of rounds a year through multiple rifles, now i just dont have the time. Building where i will have a 500 yard strip out my garage window, hoping it changes soon. Been hunting on the same group of 20 hand loads in my 270 for more than the last 5 years, still have 6 rounds left but have killed deer with it every year.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027476
10/28/20 02:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Big Fitz
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Do you guys retweak your loads for optimum accuracy to account for the speed increase?
I was wrong...on anything technical. Fitz............. is right, ya know............
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: Big Fitz]
#8027488
10/28/20 03:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,221
wp75169
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Do you guys retweak your loads for optimum accuracy to account for the speed increase? I will be. Probably 50 more rounds then start over load development. It’s actually shooting great still, if the nut behind the wheel could understand wind it would be competitive as is.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: Big Fitz]
#8027494
10/28/20 03:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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Do you guys retweak your loads for optimum accuracy to account for the speed increase? I do not see a change in accuracy from the original load. The barrel just speeds up.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#8027498
10/28/20 03:09 PM
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dee
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Do you guys retweak your loads for optimum accuracy to account for the speed increase? I do not see a change in accuracy from the original load. The barrel just speeds up. Typically my experience as well. Just recently had one that the accuracy was still one hole bht the point of impact shifted a good bit.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027544
10/28/20 03:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Yes, you will have a POI shift, generally high. That's what I meant by account for it, and re-zero or adjust.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027556
10/28/20 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,200
Korean Redneck
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This is news to me because quality barrels are something new to me too.
I assume what some of yall say is true, and seems feasible to me. The only explanation I have that is there is less friction as the first couple hundred-ish rounds kinda smooth out all the microscopic imperfections in the bore. Just a theory and if it's true, then I'd imagine that barrel which are had lapped would see LESS velocity increase within the given conditions.
Has anyone noticed if a high quality, cur-rifled barrel that has for sure been hand lapped see the same the velocity increase?
Edit: I understand the hand lapping process of barrels to be getting a lead negative of the bore and then working it back-and-forth with some lapping compound. I may be wrong on this.
Last edited by Korean Redneck; 10/28/20 03:47 PM.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#8027574
10/28/20 03:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,221
wp75169
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This is news to me because quality barrels are something new to me too.
I assume what some of yall say is true, and seems feasible to me. The only explanation I have that is there is less friction as the first couple hundred-ish rounds kinda smooth out all the microscopic imperfections in the bore. Just a theory and if it's true, then I'd imagine that barrel which are had lapped would see LESS velocity increase within the given conditions.
Has anyone noticed if a high quality, cur-rifled barrel that has for sure been hand lapped see the same the velocity increase?
Edit: I understand the hand lapping process of barrels to be getting a lead negative of the bore and then working it back-and-forth with some lapping compound. I may be wrong on this. My Obermyer which is lapped by them then again by my smith never showed a change. That was cut rifling. Barrel in question is a Proof Research cut rifling. No notes on lapping ever. I can dang sure say it’s speeding up where the other one didn’t.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#8027601
10/28/20 04:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,954
ChadTRG42
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Has anyone noticed if a high quality, cur-rifled barrel that has for sure been hand lapped see the same the velocity increase? Bartlein barrels are precision cut rifled barrels and hand lapped. Their barrels, specifically, will speed up. Kreiger barrels will also do the same (the guys at Bartlein left Kreiger to start Bartlein, so it's nearly the same mfg processes). I can assure you that there is no "if it's true" or "seems feasible" going on. That is what they do. I have seen it MANY times. If you are a precision shooter and run one precision load with the same ammo lot, you will notice it. I'd say 99% of shooters do not have the ability to see this if they are running factory ammo or change to another ammo and make the adjustments to the new ammo. The loose tolerances of factory ammo would be difficult to notice it. But when you run one specific load with no changes, you will see the POI shift in your zero and see your trajectory flatten out.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#8027636
10/28/20 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,200
Korean Redneck
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I can assure you that there is no "if it's true" or "seems feasible" going on. That is what they do. I have seen it MANY times.
Like all phenomenon that is new to me, I approach it high levels of skepticism at first so I will still only assume this to be true. Ain't nothing personal, everyone can and has been wrong before about everything. haha. Jokes aside, it didn't seem theoretically impossible at first thought. Hence the question. From a pure-scientific nerd stand point, I'd love to see a little informal study of velocity gains vs level of hand lapping. At the very least, wp has at least one counter example. It's probably a worth-less endeavor but something like get a bunch of barrels with varying number of passes of lapping and see if it correlates to the change in velocity.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027669
10/28/20 04:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I've seen it in bartlien, krieger and mullerworks on my personal stuff. On a friend's benchmark that is a button barrel. All are considered pretty high-end and sold as hand lapped.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: dee]
#8027735
10/28/20 05:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Do you guys retweak your loads for optimum accuracy to account for the speed increase? I do not see a change in accuracy from the original load. The barrel just speeds up. Typically my experience as well. Just recently had one that the accuracy was still one hole bht the point of impact shifted a good bit. Yup
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027755
10/28/20 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,175
scottfromdallas
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Is this only for cut rifle barrels? Just wondering if it applied to button or hammer forged.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027771
10/28/20 06:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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I've seen it in benchmark button barrels. No experience on Hanmer forged
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#8027819
10/28/20 06:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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I can assure you that there is no "if it's true" or "seems feasible" going on. That is what they do. I have seen it MANY times.
Like all phenomenon that is new to me, I approach it high levels of skepticism at first so I will still only assume this to be true. Ain't nothing personal, everyone can and has been wrong before about everything. haha. Jokes aside, ... My momma said if I can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all. I'll bite my tongue on this one. But I will say this, there's a few things I've been wrong about. But not this one.
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027827
10/28/20 06:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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Re: Barrel Speeding Up?
[Re: wp75169]
#8027912
10/28/20 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Judd
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I don’t think I’ve ever owned one that didn’t. At least not one I ever noticed. I don’t trust any reading until I get over 100 rounds on a barrel.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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