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Please educate me on scopes.
#7867794
06/11/20 09:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 21
Lightnin
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 21 |
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7867810
06/11/20 09:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,594
Skylar Mac
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,594 |
Short answer is that you don't need a BDC. No, BDC are calculated holds for specific ammo, grain weight, velocity, etc..
If needed, I can put together a much better and more thought out response, however there are others here who will contribute.
Last edited by Skylar Mac; 06/11/20 09:58 PM.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7867813
06/11/20 09:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,594
Skylar Mac
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,594 |
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7867975
06/12/20 12:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 420
Roughneck913
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 420 |
Using a reticle with MOA or MIL markings allows you to choose between holding over in the reticle or dialing, or a combination of both. If I am shooting targets, I usually dial, because I have the time to. If I am hunting, I usually holdover, because who knows when and where that animal may present a shot. BDC reticles (not the same as MIL or MOA reticles) are matched to a very specific set of variables. Change one variable and the reticle is wrong.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7868021
06/12/20 01:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227 |
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better. Proper reticle, turreted scopes you can do one or the other. Dial or hold. (BDC is a Nikon term and it is more or less "almost" correct) Mil or MOA can be used to the extent of being exactly correct. You do not always have the time to dial, so learn to hold. For the new shooter, holding is not as precise and must be practiced to become precise. Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: J.G.]
#7868034
06/12/20 01:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 21
Lightnin
OP
Light Foot
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OP
Light Foot
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 21 |
Okay you all confirmed what I thought. If time allows and it is a long distance adjust the turret. If on the other hand it is fast or realitively close just learn to hold over using the reticle. Thank you.
So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: J.G.]
#7868261
06/12/20 12:14 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,057
RHutch
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,057 |
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: RHutch]
#7868289
06/12/20 12:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175
Ramhorn
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175 |
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego. yep
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Ramhorn]
#7868300
06/12/20 01:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227 |
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego. yep Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7868323
06/12/20 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777 |
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: 603Country]
#7868365
06/12/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 420
cheetah577
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 420 |
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that. +1 Great post. I've been hunting a little longer than you, but have had the same experiences. Know how your gun shoots (ammo, scope, etc) and if you aren't confident, don't take the shot. Having said that, you can still miss every now and then......
God bless John Wayne!
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: 603Country]
#7868452
06/12/20 03:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227 |
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that. Even the old .308 plodding along at 2700 fps or less isn't but 1.0 Mil hold at 300 yards, from a 100 yard zero. Dial if you have time, hold if you don't have the time. Mil/Mil, or MOA/MOA the numbers are the same for hold versus dial. A person just needs to learn their ammo, and learn how to use the reticle to do it. The farther out a critter is, the farther the hold gets from zero. But it is more likely the animal doesn't even know the hunter is there, so not spooked and not in a hurry. You've probably got time to dial if you want to.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7868506
06/12/20 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777 |
All agreed upon. It occurs to me that back when I was hunting in South Texas and looking down long senderos, I probably would have dialed a bunch, if I had today’s optics. Mostly standing deer at distance, but I didn’t have a RF anyway. And back in NE Louisiana I had long shots and short shots, which is about the same here, where I live and hunt.
Truth be told, I really haven’t dialed for deer very often, since all shots are less than 300. I have dialed for pigs out to 500. It’s good to have the options.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: J.G.]
#7868683
06/12/20 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182 |
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego. yep Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved. Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice? I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7868699
06/12/20 08:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175
Ramhorn
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175 |
Scott
Anyone with any respect for another hunter ain't gonna call you a coward. Egotistical Bow hunters are derogatory like that to rifle hunters, some even to crossbow hunters.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: scottfromdallas]
#7868916
06/13/20 01:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227 |
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?
I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
If what I said get people to practice more, great! Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869127
06/13/20 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182 |
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better. I haven't handled Optika6 but I have a Meopro 6x and 2 Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8 that were made by Meopta and they are great scopes. Glass is fantastic for the price point. They hold zero. Mine have regular capped turrets. Meopta has a good reputation for scopes but the Optika6 with target turrets are new so only time will tell.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869130
06/13/20 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,038
pertnear
"Demolition Man"
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"Demolition Man"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,038 |
............So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6? +1
The North has double last names. The South has double first names.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: J.G.]
#7869151
06/13/20 02:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175
Ramhorn
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 175 |
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?
I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
If what I said get people to practice more, great! Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light There aren't people that dislike hunters that are watching hunting shows. If they did , they would not have a clue how the hunter compensated for the range. Even if someone explained it to them and they understood the difference between holdover and dialing , do you really think it makes a difference in that person's opinion on hunting? Come on man. Scott asked you why you call out someone that wants to dial in a 300 yard shot as cowardice. Is a rifle hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Is a crossbow hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Your comment does a lot more harm to our sport than "dialing in " a 300 yard shot. Calling out an individual about how he chooses to legally hunt isn't constructive and yes , it is egotistical. It comes off as "my way is better and takes more skill, therefor I am superior to you"
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869227
06/13/20 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182 |
Ramhorn, You can't argue with a narcissist. They are always right in their own minds and never apologize or admit being wrong. You'll catch on. Welcome to the THF.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869382
06/13/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777 |
I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: 603Country]
#7869393
06/13/20 09:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,227 |
I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff. Thank you sir. I will always have my haters. And I've come to accept that.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: RHutch]
#7869524
06/13/20 11:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,183
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,183 |
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego. Damn, you shooting a 30-30?
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869580
06/14/20 01:00 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,182 |
I don't hate anyone, especially you. I just don't want a new member to get frustrated. He'd have better luck arguing with the wall.
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Re: Please educate me on scopes.
[Re: Lightnin]
#7869623
06/14/20 01:26 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,777 |
Well, he is hard headed. :-)
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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