Texas Hunting Forum
Please educate me on scopes.
Posted By: Lightnin
Please educate me on scopes. - 06/11/20 09:45 PM
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.
Posted By: Skylar Mac
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/11/20 09:57 PM
Short answer is that you don't need a BDC.
No, BDC are calculated holds for specific ammo, grain weight, velocity, etc..
If needed, I can put together a much better and more thought out response, however there are others here who will contribute.
Posted By: Skylar Mac
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/11/20 09:58 PM
Posted By: Roughneck913
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 12:38 AM
Using a reticle with MOA or MIL markings allows you to choose between holding over in the reticle or dialing, or a combination of both. If I am shooting targets, I usually dial, because I have the time to. If I am hunting, I usually holdover, because who knows when and where that animal may present a shot. BDC reticles (not the same as MIL or MOA reticles) are matched to a very specific set of variables. Change one variable and the reticle is wrong.
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 01:33 AM
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.
Proper reticle, turreted scopes you can do one or the other. Dial or hold.
(BDC is a Nikon term and it is more or less "almost" correct) Mil or MOA can be used to the extent of being exactly correct.
You do not always have the time to dial, so learn to hold.
For the new shooter, holding is not as precise and must be practiced to become precise.
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
Posted By: Lightnin
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 01:54 AM
Okay you all confirmed what I thought. If time allows and it is a long distance adjust the turret. If on the other hand it is fast or realitively close just learn to hold over using the reticle. Thank you.
So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?
Posted By: RHutch
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 12:14 PM
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
Posted By: Ramhorn
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 12:53 PM
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
yep
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 01:08 PM
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
yep
Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved.
Posted By: 603Country
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 01:36 PM
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.
Posted By: cheetah577
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 02:17 PM
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.
+1 Great post. I've been hunting a little longer than you, but have had the same experiences. Know how your gun shoots (ammo, scope, etc) and if you aren't confident, don't take the shot. Having said that, you can still miss every now and then......
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 03:28 PM
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.
Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.
Even the old .308 plodding along at 2700 fps or less isn't but 1.0 Mil hold at 300 yards, from a 100 yard zero.
Dial if you have time, hold if you don't have the time.
Mil/Mil, or MOA/MOA the numbers are the same for hold versus dial. A person just needs to learn their ammo, and learn how to use the reticle to do it. The farther out a critter is, the farther the hold gets from zero. But it is more likely the animal doesn't even know the hunter is there, so not spooked and not in a hurry. You've probably got time to dial if you want to.
Posted By: 603Country
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 04:42 PM
All agreed upon. It occurs to me that back when I was hunting in South Texas and looking down long senderos, I probably would have dialed a bunch, if I had today’s optics. Mostly standing deer at distance, but I didn’t have a RF anyway. And back in NE Louisiana I had long shots and short shots, which is about the same here, where I live and hunt.
Truth be told, I really haven’t dialed for deer very often, since all shots are less than 300. I have dialed for pigs out to 500. It’s good to have the options.
Posted By: scottfromdallas
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 08:03 PM
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
yep
Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved.
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?
I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
Posted By: Ramhorn
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/12/20 08:28 PM
Scott
Anyone with any respect for another hunter ain't gonna call you a coward. Egotistical Bow hunters are derogatory like that to rifle hunters, some even to crossbow hunters.
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 01:16 AM
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?
I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
If what I said get people to practice more, great!
Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light
Posted By: scottfromdallas
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 01:52 PM
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.
I haven't handled Optika6 but I have a Meopro 6x and 2 Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8 that were made by Meopta and they are great scopes. Glass is fantastic for the price point. They hold zero. Mine have regular capped turrets. Meopta has a good reputation for scopes but the Optika6 with target turrets are new so only time will tell.
Posted By: pertnear
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 01:54 PM
............So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?
+1
Posted By: Ramhorn
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 02:17 PM
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?
I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.
If what I said get people to practice more, great!
Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light
There aren't people that dislike hunters that are watching hunting shows. If they did , they would not have a clue how the hunter compensated for the range. Even if someone explained it to them and they understood the difference between holdover and dialing , do you really think it makes a difference in that person's opinion on hunting? Come on man.
Scott asked you why you call out someone that wants to dial in a 300 yard shot as cowardice.
Is a rifle hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Is a crossbow hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Your comment does a lot more harm to our sport than "dialing in " a 300 yard shot. Calling out an individual about how he chooses to legally hunt isn't constructive and yes , it is egotistical. It comes off as "my way is better and takes more skill, therefor I am superior to you"
Posted By: scottfromdallas
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 04:14 PM
Ramhorn,
You can't argue with a narcissist. They are always right in their own minds and never apologize or admit being wrong. You'll catch on. Welcome to the THF.
Posted By: 603Country
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 09:03 PM
I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff.
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 09:16 PM
I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff.
Thank you sir.
I will always have my haters. And I've come to accept that.
Posted By: Tactical Cowboy
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/13/20 11:48 PM
Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.
That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.
Damn, you shooting a 30-30?
Posted By: scottfromdallas
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/14/20 01:00 AM
I don't hate anyone, especially you. I just don't want a new member to get frustrated. He'd have better luck arguing with the wall.
Posted By: 603Country
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/14/20 01:26 AM
Well, he is hard headed. :-)
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/14/20 12:46 PM
I don't hate anyone, especially you. I just don't want a new member to get frustrated. He'd have better luck arguing with the wall.
Rifles, ammo and scopes is what I do. It's what I love and I've heavily invested in it. It will be what I keep doing when I retire from the FD. So when I answer questions to people, I think I know what I'm talking about, and that makes me a narcissist?
I'm no expert muzzle loader or expert archer, so I keep my mouth shut in those sections. We have top knife makers here. I ask questions in that section, not answer them.
Posted By: Jgraider
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/14/20 01:21 PM
What I've come to realize is there are always those who know more than I do, and everyone should realize that. Nobody knows enough to be in position to never learn something from others.
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/14/20 01:23 PM
I agree. There's a very long list of topics I have lots to learn about. One thing is for sure, the THF has a real expert on just about any topic one can think of. I mean that literally, not sarcastically.
Posted By: Ramhorn
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/16/20 01:48 PM
FiremanJG
As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.
Dialing up a 300 yard shot is a lack of character?
Compound Bow is what I use deer hunting. I don't think you are a coward for siting 300 yards away with a precision rifle , farting and smelling like whatever you ate for breakfast and setting up a tripod and duplicating a range session as close as possible. Maybe you are physically handicapped and don't have the strength to draw and hold, maybe you can't calm your nerves 20 yards from a trophy buck, I don't know, but I sure as HAIL ain't going to call you out on a public forum for lack of character.
You obviously stand by that label. You have every right to your opinion. Carry on.
Posted By: J.G.
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/16/20 03:52 PM
Compound bow hunting is a highly skilled task for those that are successful. I have one, have shot it at the bag hundreds of times, and have never taken an animal with it. It was during a time when my current home county got it's first ever deer season, and it was archery only. So I had no choice in the matter. I did archery hunt there in 2012 and 2013, with no animal taken. I am an amateur archer compared to many on this forum. But, it is a Z-7 set at maximum poundage, I can hold it just fine. With a tight shooting rifle, those of us that do it can hunt more acres at once. I've been 20 yards from most of the native animals of Texas, and it is always a fun experience.
I should have been more specific. ONLY dialing for 300 yards is not good. I recommend everyone also learn how to hold for it. 100 yard zero or a 200 yard zero, learn to hold for it. There's not alway time to dial it.
Posted By: Stompy
Re: Please educate me on scopes. - 06/16/20 03:56 PM
............So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?
+1
Just put a Meopta Meostar R1 with Mcwhorter reticle on, 4x16x44 with 30mm tube, haven't shot it yet but the glass is clearer than a VX III Leupold.