The excitement of getting that close to an elk must be exhilarating.

Kudos to your bride Jeffbird, that is impressive. I really struggle with off hand so appreciate those who can.

They are close....

With very good glass.


Preach jeffbird, preach!

TT85,

All year I get to shoot coyotes and hogs on my land, and all my neighbors land. Pretty much never do I get a prone shot. I get a tree limb, a barb wire fence, my knee, the mirror or the bed of the truck to shoot from. That's field shooting, odball positions at various heights off the ground. Therefore, this sits at the zero line of my range.

A 1" bar, every 6" off the ground. Practice on that frequently, and field shots are not so difficult anymore.



I bet the vast majority of hunters have at least a 6' step ladder at home. Rest the rifle on every rung, build a position, pick an aiming point in the scope, and dry fire. Anyone will know where their reticle was when the firing pin went click. It only costs time, no money. But the practice is invaluable.

Before this slips off the rails any further

I'm not dissuading anyone from practicing. If you want to get proficient with your weapon you have to practice. To get good at shooting, you must shoot. I used to spend quite a bit of time doing dry fire exercises in addition to the shooting I would do at the time.

I'm not questioning anyone's ability to hit an elk at 500 yards. I can easily do it, as can many others. My personal opinion is that its not wise to shoot at a game animal that far if at all possible because of what happens outside the shooters ability or control. 400 yards is a much better number if one wanted to set a limit. Again these are my personal beliefs.

I'm not anti-practice by any means, nor do I think people who have killed game at extreme ranges to be F.O.S or that its an unbelievable feat.

TT85, not putting a dog in this race as I have my opinion and others have theirs, so I don’t tell them what they should or shouldn’t do.

BUT, I am curious why 400 is ok and 500 is not? I know for a fact time of flight becomes an issue at extended ranges, but I can’t think of another reason. The 6.5 Creedmoor, which I have no use for but is a great example, hast a TOF of .509 to 400, and .658 to 500. That’s a .149 seconds difference. That’s about as slow of a cartridge as we have been talking about on this thread. Curious about your thoughts on this.

*Disclaimer*- These are my personal opinions only and not to be taken as gospel or as a challenge to anyone who disagrees with me


I wouldn't say that a 500 yard shot is "not ok" its just not as ideal as a 400 yard or less.

Lets say for arguments sake the shooter is using a stout round capable of delivering elk killing energy at 500 yards. My .300 with a 180 grain accubond is hitting at 1750 ft.lbs of energy at that range....a few hundred pounds above the threshold recommended by the "experts" so we are good there. Bullet performance should still be ok as we are right around that 2000 fps range. At 500 yards that bullet is dropping almost 40". At 600 yards the bullet has dropped almost 5 1/2'. At 400 yards its dropped 20". Its a lot easier to guesstimate how much holdover you need at 400 than 500, let alone 600. If you practice with your rifle you should know which hatch mark to use if you have a BDC reticle, if you have a adjustable turret this is a moot point but not every shooter has one.

Then you have to the wind to account for. A breeze can throw the bullet off feet at that range, making a otherwise vital shot fall too far back or too far forward.


Then you have to contend with what happens after you pull the trigger. Recoil will throw your sight picture off and at that range its hard to recover in time to see the animals reaction. If you have a spotter it doesent matter but if your alone it certainly does. Did it run this way or that way? What did he do after the hit? Where exactly was he standing? At that range, a follow up shot isn't a guarantee if he was hit poorly.


500 yards on a elk is not un-doable. Its not surface to air missle range. But it does come with its own challenges and its my opinion as an experienced hunter things become real iffy for most people once you break the 400 yard barrier

Another thing to consider is that atmospherics start to impact trajectory more as you go out further so you can practice down here, but it’s hard to practice at elevation...

I appreciate you taking the time to give a thought out answer. I still hold with the thought that if practice and become proficient at a given distance, then only concern is time of flight. Assuming you have enough gun for the job, which was the intent of this thread I think. At some point an animal can walk off after you pull the trigger, but before the bullet arrives. That’s the reason to know an ethical TOF, and it is different in every scenario. As others, maybe you, have said, there’s shots that shouldn’t be taken at 60 yards. Know you’re own limitations. Ok, now I’m rambling again.

Yep and that's one of the advantages to a rifle that's flat shooting and the reason for it's development. Roy Weatherby knew this back in the 40's when he first come out with the Weatherby line of cartridges. Takes allot of the guess work out of a shot when you're running 150 grain 30 cal's about 3500 fps and dropping less than 24 inches at 500 and bringing 1700 ft-lbs, and still running 2300 fps. That numbers about 18 with the 257 Weatherby running 87's and it's got 1100 ft-lbs and 2500 fps remaining.

To that point, if you want to have a 500 yard elk cartridge, I would pick a .28 or .30 cal magnum.

I’m a big fan of the 7mm-08 and think it’s a great cartridge. In mountain terrain, a lightweight 7mm-08 with a good bullet will give you plenty of punch to 300 yards and will save your back lugging it up mountains.

There is no guesswork.

If you really knew how to make those shots, you wouldn't be talking about inches and BDC.

Yeah, you shouldn't make those shots, but it's old telling others they shouldn't either.

Always interesting to hash and re-hash the longer range hunting scenario, especially on this forum. People probably get tired of me bringing it up, but I've gotten to watch some of the best shooters on the planet (literally) shoot long distance in various winds up in the TX Panhandle. One of them is the most accomplished and decorated long range competition shooter in history, so these guys know what they're doing. In this realm, the easy part is the gun,optics, bullet combination. The much harder part is obviously doping the wind. NONE of these guys can dope wind correctly on the first shot every time. NONE. They practice a bunch, and I mean a whole bunch up there, and they still can't hit the target on the first shot every time.

I bring this up because when these scenarios are posted here, many make it seem like all you have to do is go buy a GAP precision rifle, throw a NF ATACR on it, grab some Bergers, get your dope, and everything is easy street thereafter. That's the fallacy in all of these debates. IF the premier sniper trainer in the world, his students, and the most accomplished long range competition shooter ever can't do it, nobody else can either, period. You can practice all you want and you still won't be able to make first round hits 100% of the time. When the wind isn't blowing, it's so easy a caveman can do it.

I would think you're talking about the 600+ yard shots. Bet they're always or almost always on, 500 and in. If they're not, I'm at a loss.

Watch this video.

You have the founder of gunwerks, who is a very competent long range shooter and his brother.

First shot hits the sheep in front of the hip. Arron shoots his sheep square in the arse on his first shot. Had these been elk they would have been gone.

Granted, distance is a bit further. But if there is no guesswork then why didn’t they drill both sheep on the first shot?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nb3ZdmrnwVM


Again, not much point in arguing it anymore. We won’t change each other’s minds

The best “shooter” in the world was walking in 400- 500 yard shots?

There’s a big difference in thinking you can, and can

I can’t at this moment take anything at 500.

I’ll admit it, some won’t

I couldnt consistently right now, with that said I’d be first to admit it’s soley due to pure laziness and not practicing enough.

That makes at least 3 of us right now. I sold the rifle that I took a doe with at 510 last year. Me and the one I’ve built now are a long way from it.

Yes FJG. They are almost always on, but keep in mind that up in Canadian the wind can really get with the program. It could be 20-40mph some days. 10-20 is very normal, across ridges, valleys, etc. He has the damdest setup you've ever seen. You can shoot 360*, any direction, out to 2000m. Talk about doping some wind....... I couldn't even guess how much stell he has set out all over the place.

You ever been to Canadian TX? If you haven't, well, the wind can blow 10-65 mph any given day. Yout get maybe a day a week if you're lucky when the wind is 10 or less.

Bit windy today.

Still managed to find the best load for a rifle, using 200 yard paper, waiting for the optimal wind and optimal light (mirage bad). Still windy, walked it from 300 to 800 yards, hitting center. Not an all day project. No great feat, lots of people can do the same. Point being, there are people out there that look at 500 yards as no big deal, most of the time. When I'm practicing, it is the distance I make my first shot, wind be damned. That's so I'm better prepared for the same shot on an animal.

Shot dogs near Texline, and shot 360° for 7 years straight. Also shoot a match near Camargo, OK every year. I know what you speak of. It is pretty much always sporty up there. 10 mph wind is a gift.

Get a .338 and shoot a Nozler .225 Accubond and don't listen to anyone else, end of topic. All guides and outfitters like clients with large caliber guns. I've killed lots of elk in my life and with the combination they don't wander off.
Go big or stay home, with most guides or outfitters, you wing one and they can't find it your hunt is done.

Time for the dog pile😁