Not pissed and done wrong?? Come on man. This dude owns the damn property and has decided to sell. You think your hunters ever came to mind or your permission was needed? Wait out the sell and maybe you'll get your money back. [/quote]

He also signed a lease, a legal binding agreement. He should have come to us when he put the land up for sale and offered to buy us out. That would have given us plenty of time to get our things off the property. Our best leverage is before the sale, if he is this dishonest why wait til we have no leverage.

RPG1997
Why in the world would he ever even consider the hunters in the face of being able to sell his property? He's obviously going to make good money off of the sale. The hunters were the last thing on his mind, just as they should be, in this scenario. I'm not condoning him, but I can at least easily see where he may be coming from with this sale. Y'all hunters, not all of you by any means, really get out of control. You don't own the property at all. Your involvement begins and ends with hunting. The landowner can do whatever he wants with his property, including selling it. He doesn't need your permission to sell his land because you don't own the land and you don't get to decide what does and doesn't happen with it. [/quote]

So where did I say he needed my permission to sell his land? Your saying he does not have to honor a lease he signed along with the rest of us? Would you honor an agreement you made in which you received thousands of dollars? I absolutely cannot see what you are arguing for?

Gary, I hear ya and I agree except I don't think THAT many have admitted their word is no good. This thread, like many, has jumped around a good bit without really knowing what may be behind the scenes. Compared to a lot of threads it seems the VAST majority are saying a similar version of the SAME THING...which is-- NO, the seller doesn't seem to be treating the hunters fairly but also NO, it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal worth pursuing.
What I hope this thread does not morph into is a Landowner against Hunter or vice versa thread. Surely everyone will admit there are sorry Landowners out there as well as there are sorry Hunters. Beat up these particular guys if you want but lets don't throw a blanket over an entire group.
MOST Landowners need and want Hunters and MOST Hunters need and want Landowners. Lets don't harm those relationships.

RickT some of these jack legs don't know or realize the service you have provided them with this educational thread. For one I didn't realize just how many out there have no idea of what and how to file a lean. The owner will play hell trying to get a title policy with your lien against the property. You are right in asking for more than the prorated lease value. What everyone needs to know is your cost are minimal and the owner will incur cost getting the title perfected from his attorney. The cost are on the landowner.

Somebody has been watching too much Matlock on TV.

Sorry, but it is a minor deal.

But by all means, get lawyers involved, drag it out for years, & see whatcha get (besides legal bills & lost time).

While this thread has educated a couple of hunters, it’s likely also educated some landowners. Leasing may be too much hassle to deal with, especially if your considering selling your property.

Good luck moving forward.

I just don't get it.

But trying to get a few hundred dollars back from the landowner could end up costing you more than you get back. It may make you feel good but was it worth it? I have been in the same situation a few times. But after talking to the County Judge and him explaining the cost and time involved he told me the same thing. You want less money back in the long run or just the satisfaction of winning?

So where did I say he needed my permission to sell his land? Your saying he does not have to honor a lease he signed along with the rest of us? Would you honor an agreement you made in which you received thousands of dollars? I absolutely cannot see what you are arguing for?
[/quote]

This whole situation is a minor deal. Sure, go to court. File a suit against him. See where it gets you. It'll get you absolutely nowhere, you'll just waste a lot of your time, a lot of your money, a lot of his time, a lot of his money, and a lot of lawyers' and judges' time. You won't get your money back, you won't get any additional lease time, and you may just may be able to get your stuff off the property before the sale occurs. If I'm selling my land, the hunters are gonna be the last thing on my mind. I'm going to take care of my affairs first, getting my stuff taken care of, just as this landowner is. Not condoning him, just dealing with the real world. You're ahead to get as much of your stuff off as possible before the sale occurs, cutting your losses, and moving on.

To me, it sounds like what the OP wants is for the LO (whoever that might be pre or post sale) to honor a previously agreed upon written lease contract end date.
Both parties signature on all copies of lease contract make it valid, recorded or not.

As a LO,
Seems reasonable to me that both parties expect the written lease to be a binding enforceable contract,, as long as there are no provisions in the contract pertaining to various particulars stating otherwise.
Reasonable for either party to hold the other responsible/bound to the particulars of defined lease terms.
Unreasonable that the LO didn't make the Realestate agent and prospective buyer aware of a valid lease.
Unreasonable the lessee's seek full refund of lease fee.
Unreasonable that both parties don't attempt to reach reasonable accommodations between themselves when an event takes place that neither was aware of at lease inception.

Strange to hear of a written lease agreement so poorly worded and or lacking in detail, especially these days.

No mention of at least;
Lease is enforceable only by those specifically named on the lease. Sometimes on hunting leases there is only one named responsible party from the lessee side.
(meaning if your name isn't written / listed in the lease as a lessee you have zero interest, say or consideration)
Either party may terminate lease for any reason upon receipt of written notification to include a minimum 30 days notice.
( sometimes further defined such as, via e mail, text, letter etc...)
Land owner / lessor maintains right to immediately terminate lease with appropriate justification.
( may state what types of actions would qualify for immediate termination)
In the event of change in ownership / property sale or lessor health issues or death.
(wording explaining - what takes place)
In the event of early lease termination, no recourse, proration or refund of lease fee's after lease has been in effect for a defined period of time.
(30 days to whatever). prevent folks from hunting deer season then requesting refund for unused lease term because of lessee inactivity.
Or a clause defining what triggers proration or refund of lease fee and specifies amounts.
This recreational lease document does not grant or assign lessee/tenant the power or right of encumbrance.

The above is a few bare bones basic hunting/recreational lease terms in every lease I've held since at least the early 80's.
Other type leases (grazing, crop, hay etc...) have different wording / clauses.

If this group had a lease with me, they would have access & use of property as defined in the contract, or I would attempt mutual reasonable resolution / accommodation.

But, none of us have a copy of the OP's lease to read, so it is speculation based on information presented.

Yes sir THIS.

This is actually very simple. The landowner and hunters are all in a legally binding contract. The owner honors the contract until it is complete or he reimburses a prorated amount to each hunter he is breaching the contract with. Since the owner will not answer his phone I would send a certified letter. Let him know in writing that he needs to give you guys back some money or you will file a lien on his property. He will either pay you guys or jeopardize his sale of his property. I think he will probably pay you guys so he doesn't lose his sale. I know a lot of you guys say hey it's no big deal it is only 2 months and only Turkey season. It might not be a big deal for you guys but it would be more about the principle of the whole deal. It's not any different then buying a car or renting an apartment. You sign the contract you honor it till the end or pay the consequences.

After seeing this and dealing with a couple sports on my place. It's making me realize that leasing to hunters may just not be worth the hassle.

It can be. You just have to find the right people, which is one of the most challenging aspects of it.

Man, why is this so hard for everyone? Are there that many unethical people in the world? I guess a handshake isn't worth squat any more. If I had a lessee on my property and someone came to me with an offer to buy that I couldn't refuse to take, I'd do two things: I'd inform the buyer of said land I have a lessee and ask permission to let him/her ride out the lease if I give them the prorated lease payment at closing. If the answer was, "no", I'd prorate refund the lessee and give them as much notice as possible. How hard is that? Shouldn't that be the standard procedure?

Learned a long time ago not to expect others to treat me as I would treat them - been "punked" way too many times for that. This situation is not about ethics, its about what it is worth doing about it. Sometimes you find yourself in an awkward position and that is not the time wasting resources to make it even more awkward. Dwell on it and allow drama to take over or get on with your life.

Go ahead, stick your fingers in the socket.

Just went thru this same issue. If the lease agreement was not signed and notarized and then filed in that county's court house it is worthless in the court or lawyers eyes. If you file a lien better have the right documents to back it up or you might find your self in a law suit. Not saying its right for either party but I just learned all of this the hard way and ours was a multi year (5) contract that still has a year left on it. Its not worth it just pack and move. Keep in mind when you try to get on a new leases the way you handle this might follow you.

I see both sides, but most of the price of a lease is built around deer hunting. I've never paid for a turkey only lease but I can't imagine it would be much money.

Can someone setup a go-fund-me site to buy these guys a couple of frozen HEB turkeys :-)

Only .25 cents per acre on our place and it still isn't worth it

Ive chimed in on this before but theres part of it I think is important enough to stay with. Almost every one on here would agree with Noose about what SHOULD of happened, but that's NOT what happened. The Landowner/seller has not offered his side to this so we have only heard from the Hunter. From the Hunters story then most would agree he was wronged but most keep saying its not worth the fight. Yall can keep debating this but its been beat to death and the Hunter has made his decision so its serving no good purpose. It seems apparent the OP has drawn his line in the stand mostly on principal. IMO that is fine and dandy, if the cause is worthwhile. To paraphrase Deer Hound, "the OPs decision may follow him as he searches for new leases." The OPs Landowner as well as all the Landowners on this forum go to the café, feed store, church etc so "is it worth it" keeps coming up...….
A more important concern is that further discussion could create ill feelings between Landowners and Hunters. Whichever side of that fence you are on it should be agreed we don't need a US vs THEM attitude perpetuated. The great State of Texas is almost entirely owned/controlled by private Landowners. If you enjoy hunting Public land or if you own your own hunting property then you are excused from this discussion, but the vast majority of Hunters NEED and WANT Landowners to unlock their gates. Yes it is usually very costly but thank goodness for the free market system. On the other side there are Landowners that are not able to get enough money to make it worth it or there are others that have so much money they don't need hunters money. However, just like Hunters, the vast majority of Landowners NEED and WANT the money for Hunters. Its a two way street and there is an alliance of sorts that's needed to make it work. The Landowners hold the key to the Castle, and rightfully so. Personally, I will continue to thank the Lord every time I pull up to his gate and the locks aren't changed.
OP, nothing pointed directly at you on any of this. You apparently have been wronged and you have the right to do what youre doing. Im just using your thread to speak to a greater concern.

This^^^^^^^^^^ - very well said and with a lot of wisdom - all this over 60 days so a few turkey may be shot?

I am all about "but it's the principal of the thing" - but the older I get the more I realize that battles need to be picked. Some are worth it and some are not - the LO and lease hunters relationships need to remain professional and respectful. As with everything else in all of our lives there are good and bad folks on both sides. Look for the good and when you find them embrace

I think I would be more disappointed in losing the lease period as opposed to missing turkey season. Leases are find to find at times..

Turkey season was not the real reason I was a bit pissed, I would have hog hunted but at any rate the property owner made it right by pro rating us our money back and gave us 10 more days to get our stuff. Raising a stink worked.

Agree completely wish I had gone with you this year.