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 Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7761693
03/03/20 12:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,695
krmitchell
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OP, just curious but how much money was sank into the lease for the year? 10k vs. 100k may make a difference if you want to sue the LO for two months of Turkey hunting.
Last edited by krmitchell; 03/03/20 02:12 PM.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: krmitchell]
#7761708
03/03/20 01:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,539
fishdfly
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Everyone is making the current owner as the bad guy here.
The future owner may have made a "condition of the sale", that all the personal property of the current owner and the lessors is removed by that date.
There are just to may if's here to make a solid judgment.
Wonder why the OP has never responded?
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: dkershen]
#7762106
03/03/20 08:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: fishdfly]
#7762107
03/03/20 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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Everyone is making the current owner as the bad guy here.
The future owner may have made a "condition of the sale", that all the personal property of the current owner and the lessors is removed by that date.
There are just to may if's here to make a solid judgment.
Wonder why the OP has never responded?
Because I was out there breaking down feeders and getting a camper ready to move! And hog hunting most of the night, got back late and was too tired yesterday to fool with the computer.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: Mr. T.]
#7762111
03/03/20 08:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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To sum this up....If you give the new buyer written notice of an existing lease, before he buys the land, he has to honor it....just calling him will not do....in writing.
Below is law on cattle leases in Texas
There are, surprisingly, few Texas cases that have addressed this issue. Nevertheless, the law appears to be fairly settled on this point. As with most legal questions, the answer depends on the facts.
First, if the original lease agreement between the landlord and tenant states that the landlord shall have the right to terminate the lease if the property is sold, that is an enforceable contractual term and the lease may be terminated by the landowner. See, e.g. Frankfurt Fin. Co. v. Treadway, 159 S.W.2d 514 (Tex. Ct. App. 1942) (“Our attention is directed to the well-settled rule that parties to a lease may lawfully stipulate for a termination of the leasehold upon sale by the owner; and it has further been held that such a provisio becomes a covenant running with the land, thus a right inuring to the purchaser.”)
If, however, the lease is silent as to termination upon sale to a new purchaser, the common law applies. The basic rule in this situation is that so long as the new purchaser is on notice that a lease exists, the sale of property does not terminate the lease agreement. Instead, the new purchaser takes the property subject to the terms of the lease agreement. There is no clause saying the lease terminates if the property is sold. The lease says specifically that we have until 60 days after the last day of Turkey season to remove our things. Thanks.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762164
03/03/20 09:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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Filing a lien and fighting to the bitter end over a few corn buzzards is hardly worth it IMHO. I'd have to imagine you and your other hunters are the last thing on the owner's mind if he's selling.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762211
03/03/20 11:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,934
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it. I think you made the right move. Get out there, get your stuff off, then start negotiating with the seller/buyer about the lease. At least you will not lose your things that way. Good Luck!
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762214
03/03/20 11:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,950
don k
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it. Good luck with that. I guess if it makes you feel good do it. A few years ago I got pissed off about something and could not let it go. My Daughter told me " Just Let It Go Squirrel" Live and learn. As my former Boss said. "Sh*t Happens". Learn from it if you can.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: titan2232]
#7762253
03/04/20 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796
dogcatcher
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Filing a lien and fighting to the bitter end over a few corn buzzards is hardly worth it IMHO. I'd have to imagine you and your other hunters are the last thing on the owner's mind if he's selling.
It is the how the landowner failed to notify the Realtor and the buyer of previous commitments.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: fishdfly]
#7762831
03/04/20 04:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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From a landowner's perspective, I have the right to sell my land, this comes over your lease for hunting.
His responsibility, ends with the sale of the land which he no longer owns the day the sale is complete fishdfly, correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm understanding you to say is that if you sign a contract to lease someone hunting rights to your land you reserve the right to burn the contract and sell the place, not living up to your end of the agreement? To answer your question, yes. If I had leased my land for hunting and someone came along and offered me substantially more for my land than what it is worth, the last thing I would be worried about is someone hunting and getting their feelings hurt. Then you would be just the kind of low life land owner I am dealing with. When you sign a contract and take someones money you are liable.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: don k]
#7762840
03/04/20 04:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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OP
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RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it. Good luck with that. I guess if it makes you feel good do it. A few years ago I got pissed off about something and could not let it go. My Daughter told me " Just Let It Go Squirrel" Live and learn. As my former Boss said. "Sh*t Happens". Learn from it if you can. Attitudes like this are exactly why we as hunters are so often screwed by unscrupulous landowners. To put a lien on his property costs very little, he may want to pay up so as not to disrupt the sale. I am not really pissed, just done wrong and the pursuit of getting things right is not all that bad a thing to do. There are still 9 feeders, two stands and who knows how many game cameras on the property. One of the lease guys is in California and won't be back until the middle of April.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762851
03/04/20 04:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,408
Bass&More
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Save up and buy your own land, I had lease hunters on my property when I bought it and as I remember they took the "good" equipment and left me with a semi load of trash and at least a dozen or so abandoned feeder pens I found with my shredder  
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762922
03/04/20 05:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067
titan2232
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,067 |
RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Good luck and PM me if you have equations on this. Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it. Good luck with that. I guess if it makes you feel good do it. A few years ago I got pissed off about something and could not let it go. My Daughter told me " Just Let It Go Squirrel" Live and learn. As my former Boss said. "Sh*t Happens". Learn from it if you can. Attitudes like this are exactly why we as hunters are so often screwed by unscrupulous landowners. To put a lien on his property costs very little, he may want to pay up so as not to disrupt the sale. I am not really pissed, just done wrong and the pursuit of getting things right is not all that bad a thing to do. There are still 9 feeders, two stands and who knows how many game cameras on the property. One of the lease guys is in California and won't be back until the middle of April. Not pissed and done wrong?? Come on man. This dude owns the damn property and has decided to sell. You think your hunters ever came to mind or your permission was needed? Wait out the sell and maybe you'll get your money back.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7762983
03/04/20 07:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 338
RPG1997
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 338 |
[quote=dkershen]RickT.... I had this exact scenario for approx the same time frame occur several years back. Hopefully you have a signed lease agreement to back you up on this. If so you should be in good shape. Your next step is to contact the realtor closing this deal ASAP. Let him know that there is an existing lease agreement on the property that has to be dealt with at or before closing. Tell them that you either need a prorated check for your pre-paid access to the land, or the new owner will be required to sign a short lease agreement giving you access through the original end-date. Tell them you'd like to explore a lease extension with the new owner as well. Tell them inaction on their part will result in a lawsuit that includes the realtor and the closing title company (if you can find out the title company being used to close the deal copy them as well on the correspondence and document the communication). The most likely scenario is that they will add your lease proration to the closing costs, and that a check will be waiting for you at closing. That's how it worked out for me.
Well I called the realtor and told him if we were not given our money back we would file a lien on the property. The realtor said he would talk to the owner who won't even answer his phone to any of the lease guys. I went out Sunday, hog hunted most of the night and got all of my stuff home. We still need to get the other three guys stuff off the property. There is a signed lease stating that we have 60 days after the end of Turkey season to remove our equipment. I plan to request the entire amount of the lease money not just the last three months, he broke the lease not just a few months of it. Good luck with that. I guess if it makes you feel good do it. A few years ago I got pissed off about something and could not let it go. My Daughter told me " Just Let It Go Squirrel" Live and learn. As my former Boss said. "Sh*t Happens". Learn from it if you can. Attitudes like this are exactly why we as hunters are so often screwed by unscrupulous landowners. To put a lien on his property costs very little, he may want to pay up so as not to disrupt the sale. I am not really pissed, just done wrong and the pursuit of getting things right is not all that bad a thing to do. There are still 9 feeders, two stands and who knows how many game cameras on the property. One of the lease guys is in California and won't be back until the middle of April. Not pissed and done wrong?? Come on man. This dude owns the damn property and has decided to sell. You think your hunters ever came to mind or your permission was needed? Wait out the sell and maybe you'll get your money back. Why in the world would he ever even consider the hunters in the face of being able to sell his property? He's obviously going to make good money off of the sale. The hunters were the last thing on his mind, just as they should be, in this scenario. I'm not condoning him, but I can at least easily see where he may be coming from with this sale. Y'all hunters, not all of you by any means, really get out of control. You don't own the property at all. Your involvement begins and ends with hunting. The landowner can do whatever he wants with his property, including selling it. He doesn't need your permission to sell his land because you don't own the land and you don't get to decide what does and doesn't happen with it.
Last edited by RPG1997; 03/04/20 07:08 PM.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763067
03/04/20 07:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 512
soonersorlaters
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Joined: Aug 2015
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Honor the contract, amend the purchase agreement with new buyer to honor the current agreement in place or mutually agree with the leasee to have terms of the current contract altered at both parties' satisfaction.
A legal binding contract is just as legal in this scenario as it is if it were a guy leasing grazing rights, renting a car, apartment, whatever. Willful negligence of contractual obligations is not a "right" that I am aware of.
Last edited by soonersorlaters; 03/04/20 08:00 PM.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763096
03/04/20 08:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 662
rob valle
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It sounds like you want a full refund of the lease price AFTER you were able to hunt during the entire regular whitetail season. It sounds like the spring turkey season is just a bonus. If it goes to court, I could see the judge being FAIR and ordering you guys being paid a prorated amount for the balance of the lease that you were not able to use. Sometimes being reasonable in situations like this goes a long way. Unless your lease was for Spring Turkey Season ONLY, I think this is an argument you will lose in court.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: RPG1997]
#7763120
03/04/20 08:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,934
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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Why in the world would he ever even consider the hunters in the face of being able to sell his property? He's obviously going to make good money off of the sale. The hunters were the last thing on his mind, just as they should be, in this scenario. I'm not condoning him, but I can at least easily see where he may be coming from with this sale. Y'all hunters, not all of you by any means, really get out of control. You don't own the property at all. Your involvement begins and ends with hunting. The landowner can do whatever he wants with his property, including selling it. He doesn't need your permission to sell his land because you don't own the land and you don't get to decide what does and doesn't happen with it.
Why would he consider the hunters? Because the hunters have a legal and binding lease that they PAID for!!! I have not seen anyone say that he can't sell his property. What he can't do is sell his property that has a legal lease on it without addressing the lease somehow. He could sell his property and refund lease fees, or sell his property and stipulate in the sale that the new owner honor the lease. What he can not do is take the hunter's money and keep the hunter's money for a lease through the end of turkey season and not honor it. If it goes to court, I'd bet that the hunter will get back all or part of his lease fee as well as possibly lawyers fees.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763126
03/04/20 08:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,472
DQ Kid
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Since the contract didn't specifically address the "sale of the property and possible perpetuity of contract" not sure if that survives a legal sales transaction and transfer of ownership. I am not a lawyer but do play one on tv.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763178
03/04/20 09:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,539
fishdfly
Pro Tracker
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Would be interesting to know if this lease was an annual lease (renewed each year) or a multi-year lease that has been in effect for some time.
If it was an multi-year lease, the landowner may not have know when the lease was signed, that he was going to sell at some point in the future. With the negotiating the sale, he might not have considered the lease nor given it any thought.
Not all landowners are not experienced when it comes to contracts and the law.
Seems the lessors also missed the part of selling the land and where they thought their rights were.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: unclebubba]
#7763257
03/04/20 10:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 338
RPG1997
Bird Dog
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 338 |
Why in the world would he ever even consider the hunters in the face of being able to sell his property? He's obviously going to make good money off of the sale. The hunters were the last thing on his mind, just as they should be, in this scenario. I'm not condoning him, but I can at least easily see where he may be coming from with this sale. Y'all hunters, not all of you by any means, really get out of control. You don't own the property at all. Your involvement begins and ends with hunting. The landowner can do whatever he wants with his property, including selling it. He doesn't need your permission to sell his land because you don't own the land and you don't get to decide what does and doesn't happen with it.
Why would he consider the hunters? Because the hunters have a legal and binding lease that they PAID for!!! I have not seen anyone say that he can't sell his property. What he can't do is sell his property that has a legal lease on it without addressing the lease somehow. He could sell his property and refund lease fees, or sell his property and stipulate in the sale that the new owner honor the lease. What he can not do is take the hunter's money and keep the hunter's money for a lease through the end of turkey season and not honor it. If it goes to court, I'd bet that the hunter will get back all or part of his lease fee as well as possibly lawyers fees. No, he really doesn't have to consider the hunters in making them his tip top priority or taking them into consideration when it comes to selling the property. If he is going to sell the property, that's the first and only thing that matters. If he goes to court, it'll be a huge waste of time and money. The hunter won't get anything back, except for maybe, a HUGE maybe, being allowed to stay through the season with no fees being recovered or covered in the slightest. Unless the contract states that the lease is in perpetuity, regardless of real estate transactions or land ownership, then it may not be able to survive an ownership transfer. That's how it works, I've seen this process before.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763290
03/04/20 10:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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I think the landowner should reimburse y’all for a few months. Understanding that the majority of the cost was for deer season, which y’all had.
That being said, this is entirely too much drama. So you miss a few months, it’s really not that big a deal. Go to court, waste everybody’s time & money (+ your own) & you will still likely not be satisfied.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: rickt300]
#7763334
03/04/20 11:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,568
garyrapp55
Extreme Tracker
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I'm surprised at the number of folks here who's word is worthless. This has no honor. I was not raised that way. Please don't think I'm standing on some pedestal looking down, there's a lot of folks here who have better character than I, lots. If I tell you I'm going to do something you can bet the farm I'm going to do it. Again, I'm surprised at the number of people here who openly admit there word is only good until the next better deal comes along. Disheartening.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: Bass&More]
#7763352
03/05/20 12:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
OP
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OP
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409 |
Save up and buy your own land, I had lease hunters on my property when I bought it and as I remember they took the "good" equipment and left me with a semi load of trash and at least a dozen or so abandoned feeder pens I found with my shredder This property is littered with old stands, dead feeders, junk not hunting related and really odd fencing. The new owner will have a lot of work to do with his cleanup for sure.
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: garyrapp55]
#7763354
03/05/20 12:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
OP
Veteran Tracker
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OP
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409 |
I'm surprised at the number of folks here who's word is worthless. This has no honor. I was not raised that way. Please don't think I'm standing on some pedestal looking down, there's a lot of folks here who have better character than I, lots. If I tell you I'm going to do something you can bet the farm I'm going to do it. Again, I'm surprised at the number of people here who openly admit there word is only good until the next better deal comes along. Disheartening. I completely agree!
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Re: Deer Lease owner and breach of contract
[Re: maximus_flavius]
#7763358
03/05/20 12:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
OP
Veteran Tracker
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OP
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409 |
I think the landowner should reimburse y’all for a few months. Understanding that the majority of the cost was for deer season, which y’all had.
That being said, this is entirely too much drama. So you miss a few months, it’s really not that big a deal. Go to court, waste everybody’s time & money (+ your own) & you will still likely not be satisfied. I don't see any drama I have caused, expecting the guy to live up to a prepaid signed lease. So I miss a few months? Well I typically hunt hogs until turkey season starts and personally don't hunt the Turkeys but some of the other guys just love Turkey hunting. And no the "majority of costs were for deer season" is not true the total cost is for leasing the land for hunting during the entirety of the lease. There is absolutely no reason to dismiss what we paid for as no a big deal.
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